PA keyboard fingering

[Pianoman1]

I have been told that PA fingering is different to piano fingering and that the thumb can and should be used on black notes where
appropriate. This is new to me what are the views of the forum on this

 

[Corsaire]

Having stopped playing for some years, I have looked at some of the music I used to be able to play - in particular noting the fingering for PA. In "Perles de Musette", my teacher marked in the fingering and looking at it now, I find it hard to believe I actually played using that fingering.

Perhaps his fingering for PA is a bit strange because he's a CBA player.

 

[debra]

I have been told that PA fingering is different to piano fingering and that the thumb can and should be used on black notes where
appropriate. This is new to me what are the views of the forum on this

On the PA using the thumb on the black notes is about as (un)comfortable as doing it on the piano, so no difference there.
The difference in fingering stems mostly from the different orientation of the hand and wrist. On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 rather than using 1-2-3-1-2-3-4 or 1-2-3-4-1-2-3. On a piano you might do the same two octaves higher but not in the same octave as on a PA. Similarly, when going to really low notes you might G-F-E-D-C-B-Bes-A on a PA with 5-4-3-2-1-3-2-1 and really low on the piano perhaps 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-2. Its all because of hand position. The standard fingering we probably learned and which is identical for PA and piano works for the center region of the keyboard but it is towards the extremes that different fingering becomes less uncomfortable depending on whether its on a PA or a piano.

 

[Pianoman1]

Thanks I was told by my teacher that using the thumb this way ensured knowing where the notes where
I was not aware I had this problem I am getting used to the slightly different keyboard on a 96 bass but this, to me is just getting used to anew instrument

 

[Glenn]

I come from decades of piano playing and it's taken me some time to accept my teachers advice to depart from the obvious piano fingering. Not that I do it just to be awkward but sometimes I find the accordion runs work better with non piano fingering. In particular I use a lot more 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 runs which means less crossovers and a more accurate playing (for me at any rate).


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[EMan]

Paul, interesting after looking at that, I find I would be quite uncomfortable with the fingering below (I play PA), but of course, if you're comfortable with something then you should do it.

[*On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 ]

On that string of notes, I would prefer 1-2-3-1-2-3-4.

I also have NP using the thumb on black keys. I might add however, that is usually when playing a chord. When playing a run, chromatic, scale, etc, I don't think I have ever used the thumb on a black key.

 

[JerryPH]

[*On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 ]

On that string of notes, I would prefer 1-2-3-1-2-3-4.

I also have NP using the thumb on black keys. I might add however, that is usually when playing a chord. When playing a run, chromatic, scale, etc, I dont think I have ever used the thumb on a black key.

You can tell that Ed and I come from a similar background in methodology because that is exactly the same thing I was going to say and the same fingering that I would have used (glad I updated the page before posting, it would have looked funny to have 2 posts so similar... lol)

 

[Teriodin]

Never having played Piano, it is interesting to find this discussion and discover that there seems to be no 'right way' to finger a PA. :mrgreen:

I've been practising using 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5 for octaves after seeing it in an accordion book, but when I play tunes I like for fun I am basically making it up as I go along, as long as I hit the right notes.

(Having played Concertina before trying PA, I now understand why my grandfather preferred a CBA. Too expensive for me, though. )

 

[george garside]

at one time piano fingering was very rigidly taught '';according to the book'' but I think many piano teachers are now more relaxed about it!. So anyone coming from a piano to a box can either continue what they were doing or experiment with other fingering patterns particularly taking into account the needs of particular parts of particular tunes and right hand chords etc.

The big difference between piano and accordion is not in the fingering pattern but in how the fingers are used! on a piano its how the keys are pressed that matters and on an accordion its how they are let go that matters and making that adjustment can be difficult for some piano players.

george

 

[JerryPH]

Strange. I never had an issue using the thumb on the black keys. If it was needed, it was used. There was never any discussion about this at the conservatory, and yes I was given many pieces where using the thumb was mandatory to be able to play the notes or chords as they were written. Every scale started with the thumb, white or black key, same for any given arppeggio.

Even today, I do this and again, there is no thought about it. When needed, the thumb is used.

 

[JeffJetton]

at one time piano fingering was very rigidly taught '';according to the book'' but I think many piano teachers are now more relaxed about it!

Yes, I think that (thankfully) the modern school of thought is that written fingerings--be they for piano or accordion--are suggestions.

They're suggestions that you should take very seriously, attempt to understand the logic behind them, and certainly try out yourself several times before dismissing. But if you can come up with something that works better for you, then I say more power to you.

Everyone's hands and fingers are different, but I feel like that matters more on accordion than it does on piano, thus fingering tend to be a bit more personal. Especially in the left hand, of course, but in the RH too. Maybe that's due to the vertical keyboard?

 

[Corsaire]

When I started to learn the PA, I was asked by my teacher if I wanted to use my little finger for the left hand. As my little fingers are a bit crooked, probably due to learning the piano very young, I reckoned there was too much risk of hitting the wrong button. It has never been a problem using just the middle 3 fingers.

I agree with Jeff - I've always treated written fingerings as suggestions rather than obligations. I must admit when accompanying the sea shanties, the music is very simple and I don't give the fingering a second thought. However, something more complicated merits more attention and I may adapt the written fingering to suit the style of the music and my fingers.

Learning by ear is more a question of trial and error and the fingering I use on the PA is not always what I would use on the piano !

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

This is going to go down like a lead balloon, but I just "wing it." This method (if it can be called a method) seems to work for me, inasmuch as I seem to hit the right notes in roughly the right order.

Shall we say, for want of a better expression, that I play instinctively?

Corsaire,

I keep my ring finger hovering around the "C" chord, having been told not to use my pinky. No idea what others do, but that is how I have learned to do it.