New member from Hungary

[attila57]

<SIZE size="100">Hello everyone!

My name's Attila and I live in Budapest. I'm a classical guitarist, a lutenist, a teacher and an amateur luthier. I'm especially fond of Spanish and South American music. Through my instrument I got acquainted with Argentine tango and Astor Piazzolla. Understandably, my interest started to grow, and now I'm quite crazy about his music and everything connected with it, including bandoneons, accordions and the like. In fact, I'd like to learn to play the CBA B-type preferably with free or converter bass. I'm not afraid of the task: the guitar's fingerboard has taught me to understand and naturally like patterns. In this sense the CBA and the guitar are quite similar instruments. I also play the baroque lute (11 & 13 courses), the 10- and 7-string guitars, the piano and other kinds of keyboard instruments, but with the keyboards I miss the total control of sound production, that I have with the guitar and its cousins. I think the accordion bellows can give the player the same kind of control. I'd like to buy a decent instrument, even if it needs some tuning-up. I've done quite a bit of guitar repair and adjustment work, and I have a little workshop and the tools of the trade. However, I'm at a bit of a loss about what kind of instrument, and what make, to buy. I'd like to play mostly classical music, like Bach, South American music, tangos, Scottish and Irish tunes, and maybe apply my guitarist/lutenist repertoire to my new instrument. Any advice welcome!
Attila

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Attila,

Firstly, a very warm welcome to this forum.

You ask for advice about makes & models of accordions. I feel obliged to warn you that there are almost as many opinions on that subject as there are members on this forum.

If you want to play all the musical genres you have mentioned in your introductory post, you need at least a four voice machine. Others will doubtless give you better advice than I can, though I do recognise the need for an accordion which can play in both Double Octave and Musette settings. (or buy two instruments)

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[dunlustin]

Welcome!
Some ideas:
In the past, Scottish music was often played using a very strong tremolo tuning (often called ‘musette’) which used three sets of Medium reeds. This is not now always the case.
Playing Bach and similar definitely calls for ‘dry’ tuning or single reed playing.
S American music (bandoneon) is often with a Low and Medium reed playing together an octave apart.
So, a minimum would be with Low and Medium reeds but most people associate a bit of tremolo with accordions which means adding a ‘voice’ – that’s L M M. How much tremolo is down to you to decide.
Adding the High set means more weight and (probably) more money

There are advocates for both B and C arrangements.
Convertors are expensive.
You can get single voice (left and right hand) CBAs with Freebass only, which are not expensive but almost impossible to resell.
Many players find all they want in a standard Left hand (ie Stradella) – this will keep you busy for some time and you may decide you don’t want/need Freebass.
Many players find that a 72 bass gives them enough options.
I agree with you about the bellows – truly a most magical thing – as close as you can get to singing (except maybe the sax but that doesn’t do chords).
My main advice – read lots and don’t be surprised if your first choice is not your last – that’s part of the charm.

 

[TomBR]

Hi Attila, sounds like you have a very good background and knowledge to start from.

Although it's nice to have an "accordion" sound with two middle pitched reeds tuned slightly differently, I think quite a lot of the music you want to play would need reeds in unison an octave apart.

I think that in Irish music, and partly in Scottish music, more people now prefer reeds tuned closely together, rather than the "old fashioned" sound with reeds tuned far apart.

You probably know already but comparing accordion terms with organ or harpsichord terms.
M=8'
L=16'
H=4'

Best wishes in your accordion and musical journey.
Tom

 

[attila57]

Dear Stephen, Dunlustin and TomBR,

Thank you for your very kind words and good advice. It's very valuable and encouraging to me! Every day I got more and more crazy about the accordion, and it's rather frustrating to do without one, but I'm full of great expectations, and the experienced ones' nice words prove me that I'm on the right track. Thanks!

Attila

 

[PAE61775]

Hello Attila,
Good to hear from you. My partner plays a 7-course lute. The lute is such a beautiful instrument to hear, and to hold. Hers was made by Martin de Withe, maybe you know of him ? http://www.martindewitte.nl
I love listening to classical music, but, enjoy playing English Folk music, Playford, and Morris Some Scottish and Irish creep into the mix. Ive just returned to playing the accordion after a break of 40 years. Its great fun.
There are good on-line resource for UK folk music. This is one example ..
http://www.martindewitte.nl
best regards
Phillip

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Attila,

You appear to be an eminently sensible man, and well capable of selecting the right instrument to suit your needs.

Do you have musical instrument stores which stock accordions nearby? If you do, my only advise would be to try a few instruments before buying. In my experience, it is always preferable to trade with reputable businesses. There have been accounts on this forum of people buying useless instruments from dishonest traders, and I would hate it if you were to fall into such a trap.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[attila57]

Attila,

You appear to be an eminently sensible man, and well capable of selecting the right instrument to suit your needs.

Do you have musical instrument stores which stock accordions nearby? If you do, my only advise would be to try a few instruments before buying. In my experience, it is always preferable to trade with reputable businesses. There have been accounts on this forum of people buying useless instruments from dishonest traders, and I would hate it if you were to fall into such a trap.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

Hello Stephen,

Thank you very much for your reply. Im in the process of choosing the instrument type. Its not easy! I must choose from whats available in the market and whats affordable to me. Ive seen a second hand Royal Standard CBA-B Stradella 11+5 registers 4+4 voices, mint condition, plays nicely. I like it, but for its price Id rather have free bass, too. I tried a small C-system new Hohner with free bass only. I must tell, that B system feels more natural, but then again, Im an inexperienced beginner, so I have doubts. Sometimes I even think, that I should begin with an ordinary PA 120 Stradella - its ubiquitous and thats an important aspect, too. Itd nice to be able to play an accordion if I came across one at a party or a shop - and thered be a good chance of this if I learned the PA first. You cant see many converter bayans around these days...
I considered a 3-row Russian Tulsky bayan, too, nice condition, but after some research and consideration I refused the idea, because I really want something with more capabilities. Im about to see a wreck of a 120 bass Paolo Soprani PA, its a bargain, so the deal could end up very well, but I just cant be that lucky, unfortunately...
Theres an accordion festival in Hungary in April, so actually, it would be very wise to buy an instrument there. The only problem is that the instruments there will certainly be beyond the means of most of us - brand new converter Bugaris and the like. Buying at a festival could be a bit risky, too - there might be some not so reputable dealers, too. (Thanks for your worried words - Ill be careful!)
After all, that Royal Standard wouldnt be so bad. If I want to learn to play the accordion Ill need the Stradella anyway, and in my mind Im constantly figuring out how Stradella basses and chords could be combined to make new chords...

Attila

 

[attila57]

Hello Attila,
Good to hear from you. My partner plays a 7-course lute. The lute is such a beautiful instrument to hear, and to hold. Hers was made by Martin de Withe, maybe you know of him ? http://www.martindewitte.nl
I love listening to classical music, but, enjoy playing English Folk music, Playford, and Morris Some Scottish and Irish creep into the mix. Ive just returned to playing the accordion after a break of 40 years. Its great fun.
There are good on-line resource for UK folk music. This is one example ..
http://www.martindewitte.nl
best regards
Phillip

Thanks Phillip,

for your reply, and your interest. The webpage you quoted is very beautiful. My lute is just like the one on the front page of martindewitte.com (Home). Its an 11-course instrument, tuned to C-D-E-F-G-A-d-f-a-d-f (Baroque tuning). Your partners 7-course lute might be a Renaissance instrument, tuned to D/F-G-c-f-a-d-g, I guess.<ATTACHMENT filename=Lute_shots 002-OOK.jpg index=0>
This is the maple back side of my lute.

Attila

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Attila,

I may be wrong, but I have an idea that Royal Standard accordions are (or were) made by Weiltmeister, in Germany. My knowledge of them is fairly scant, though I own a Galotta from the same factory. My Galotta is certainly well made, but don't take that as a recommendation.

I think you would be right to stick with a standard PA to begin with, as it would be easier to maintain or repair. There is no doubt in my mind that you will buy the right instrument, and I hope that you will share your progress on this forum.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[attila57]

Attila,

I may be wrong, but I have an idea that Royal Standard accordions are (or were) made by Weiltmeister, in Germany...
... I own a Galotta from the same factory. My Galotta is certainly well made...

...I think you would be right to stick with a standard PA to begin with, as it would be easier to maintain or repair....

Well, things are looking up now. I might be able to get a good price on the instrument in the photo.

Attila

 

[Glenn]

Good luck on the negotiations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[attila57]

Good luck on the negotiations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Glenn,

Its very nice of you. Im trying to go as low as possible... Its in mint condition, plays like a dream, so itll be a tough battle...

Attila

 

[george garside]

The royal standards I have played have all been pleasant instruments to play taking the price into account. For someone starting on the continental chromatic I would suggest either B or C system depending on what is available at the right price!. Both systems have there following and at the end of the day both do much the same thing so its a matter of personal choice or perhaps whichever is the best bargain!

As to tuning some recommend 'dry' i.e. reeds tuned almost to the same pitch and others recommend 'wet' i.e. reeds tuned concert pitch =flat =sharp to give a musette sound. For Scottish music strong musette is still very popular and is played by the current Scottish senior accordion champion Brandon Mcphee. There are several of his videos on you tube .

The tuning of a box is one of the most important things to consider when buying as you are then stuck with it!. I can be altered but at considerable expense. So if you like the sound of an instrument when you try it consider b;uying it but if you are not sure don't even think about it

george

 

[attila57]

The tuning of a box is one of the most important things to consider when buying as you are then stuck with it!. I can be altered but at considerable expense. So if you like the sound of an instrument when you try it consider b;uying it but if you are not sure don't even think about it

george

Thanks, George for the very useful advice! The first time in my life, I won't rush into buying an instrument!

Attila

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Attila,

Well, it looks to be a smart instrument. I hope that you are able to acquire it for a decent price.

I have never tried a "button box" myself, having always preferred an instrument with standard keys. Anyway, don't worry about that, it is just my little prejudice.

Good luck with all your endeavours, and please keep us informed of your progress.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[george garside]

for anyone intending taking up the box I recommend starting on a continental chromatic if they don't have reasonable experience/ability on a piano keyboard. 12 keys for the price of one on a 5 row and 12 for the price of 3 on a 3 row! - can't be bad!

george

 

[attila57]

for anyone intending taking up the box I recommend starting on a continental chromatic if they don't have reasonable experience/ability on a piano keyboard. 12 keys for the price of one on a 5 row and 12 for the price of 3 on a 3 row! - can't be bad!

george

You mean the C system? Sorry, I can't quite catch what you say about the price. BTW I can play the piano.

Attila

 

[dunlustin]

'about the price'
I don't usually reply for someone else but as it is Tuesday:
'continental chromatic' - in the UK we have a system called British Chromatic which is very different.
'12 keys for the price of...' ==> 12 major keys can be played on a 5 row using just one fingering

 

[attila57]

about the price
I dont usually reply for someone else but as it is Tuesday:
continental chromatic - in the UK we have a system called British Chromatic which is very different.
12 keys for the price of... ==> 12 major keys can be played on a 5 row using just one fingering

Thanks!