N Korean accordion factory video on YT

[debra]

Origins of manufacture have been discussed many times on this forum, and I am still of the opinion that consumers are routinely misled.  There is conclusive proof that some (not all) European manufacturers use parts made elsewhere, whilst still trading on their name and reputation for quality.

...

It is no secret that accordion manufacturers use parts made in other countries. I firmly believe this is ALL and not SOME European manufacturers. Things like buttons and other small parts are made in countries with low wages. They do not affect the overall quality of the instruments. Celluloid is all made in China, then further processed in Italy. There is nothing wrong with having parts made elsewhere. It becomes different when most, if not all of an instrument is made (not just parts but large subassemblies or even the complete assembly) in a different country than what the final "stamp" on the instrument says. I have a nice Hohner Artiste XS at home with a "Made in Germany" stamp that was actually built by Excelsior in Italy. Some brands are a bit more honest about it: an E.Soprani is an instrument made in China and only "quality checked" in Italy and that is made publicly known.
It is not just a problem with accordions that are passed as being German or Italian when this is in fact not true. North Korea also builts bayans that are sold under the name Jupiter and that are fine instruments, but are the same as the ones made near Moscow.
Origin is not a constant indicator of quality either. Shortly after WWII Japan started to produce consumer electronics that were junk and just a few decades later they were the finest and most wanted producers of electronics. I see improvement in Chinese accordions of longer-standing brands versus recently started outfits. I'm sure that North Korean accordions will be fine in the future if they are not already.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Paul,

You are quite right, of course. My concern has more to do with dishonesty than with the actual country of origin.

For example, if 65% of component parts for an instrument are made elsewhere, I believe it is unscrupulous practice to claim otherwise.

I don't have any issues with people buying Chinese accordions (or anything else, for that matter) just as long as the manufacturer doesn't try to pass it off as German or Italian.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[debra]

...
I don't have any issues with people buying Chinese accordions (or anything else, for that matter) just as long as the manufacturer doesn't try to pass it off as German or Italian.
...

Most of them make no false claims about their origin, but also do not choose a name to make the origin clearer either.
Chinese accordions come with names like Scarlatti or Paganini with a purpose, even though they do not have a "Made in Italy" sticker on them to deceive the buyer...
And we should not be just blaming the Chinese when the Germans (Hohner) were maybe the first to try to pass on non-German accordions as German.
But of course... what should one say about the origin of something? The Opel commercials "It's a German" were partly true as Opel indeed shut down the very good and efficient assembly plants outside of Germany (for instance in Antwerp, Belgium) but of course the Opel cars were designed by General Motors so they could also have said "It's an American" and that would not have been more or less true than "It's a German".
To the advantage of the North Korean accordion factory is that while I cannot read the lettering on their accordions, it's not in Latin alphabet so it's not trying to pass as being an accordion made anywhere in Europe.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Paul,

I understand that the North Korean manufacturer doesn't try to hide the origins of its products, and I am pleased that they do not attempt to mislead potential buyers. This honesty is to be applauded.

As mentioned in a previous post, the former USSR marketed motorcycles from Soviet Satellite States through a central bureau in Moscow. The UK had a Concessionaire to market these products, which were all sold as though they were from the same source. Most of their customers simply believed that they had bought Russian bikes, and I believe that was the manufacturers intention. Actually, the one I rode wasn't too bad.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[hais1273]

Russian motorcycles. We owned a Dnepr MT11 with sidecar for 4 or 5 years between 1989 and 1994 or so. To cut a long story short, the engine turned out to be a pile of &*^% and the electrics were worse.

We eventually replaced the Dnepr engine with a BM R60 unit, because of Dnepr's BMW ancestry the old air cooled R series would fit directly into the Dnepr and Ural 650 frames, a little engineering would ensure the BM engine would be compatible with the Dnepr gear box, which quaintly had a reverse gear.  Annoyingly, The sloppy input shaft into the gear box would eventually destroy the clutch plates. We eventually got rid of it and replaced it with a BM R80 and a very nice Watsonian sports sidecar.

The so called Minsk 125cc motorcycles were made in Minsk, (imaginative marketing here) now in Byelorus. Ural motorcycles were and are still made in Irbit now in Russia, Dnepr's were made some where in the Ukraine, possibly  Kiev. The 350cc two stroke twins and singles, Jupiter and the Saturn (maybe)  were half way decent bikes, well for the 1960's they would have been, but by the the 1990's they were very old hat, I once rode a 175cc Voskhod two-stroke, which was truly, truly awful...! I can't quite remember where these were made, a place called Chelyabinsk springs to mind...the design of the bikes was old fashioned but adequate, it was the lack of quality control and decent materials that let them down.
For those who remember them Jawa-CZ ( Czech)and MZ motorcyles ( East Germany) were more reliable and better built.

 

[landro]

It`s always interesting to watch these accordion factory videos but impossible to determine product quality from any of them.
Being N. Korea is so isolated who really knows ?  I can`t imagine they build a better accordion than their Chinese counterparts do .
  Having had a few different Chinese accordions in my shop for various repairs I can emphatically say the Chinese accordions simply fall far short when compared to Italian accordions. The materials, construction,  and workmanship are substandard when compared to a similar Italian instrument . 
 That said , what would any rational person expect ? Just look at the cost of a typical new Chinese made 4/5 voice , full size keyboard with the usual bevy of treble and bass changers and with supposedly ? (hand made) Cagnoni reeds for $1,400 USD. Hand made reeds is a broad term and in this case might also infer hand tuned (tipo a mano). 

. A purchase order through Alibaba might even get you 10 of these for the price of one similar Italian made instrument .
  Granted , these Chinese accordion undoubtedly work and play as intended for the most part especially when given a bit of TLC by the importing sellers shop but I never met or do I know of any accomplished accordion player in the US who have ever used one especially when performing. 
 Having said all that , on Utube there are a multitude of highly accomplished Chinese accordionists young and old , playing these same substandard Chinese accordions  that would likely prove me wrong. I`m always impressed with them.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Accord...061872?hash=item41fbf5c3b0:g:LC4AAOSwDNRceJBZ

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hais,

The one I rode (but didn't own) was a Dnieper MT10. It was a 650 cc flat twin solo and, as you say, it was originally a BMW design.

The one I rode was not very fast, nor was the ride and handling up to modern standards, but it was quite happy slogging around at modest speeds. It could be fed any grade of petrol, the lower the better, as the compression ratio was around 7:1.

The man who owned it kept it for many years, apparently with few problems. I do recall that it had 6V electrics, which made the headlights a bit like candles.

On the whole, I liked the Dnieper. Another friend of mine owned a 1200 cc Harley Davidson, and the handling was absolutely abysmal. I will stick my neck out and say that the Harley's handling was worse than that of the Dnieper.

The Dnieper owner did tell me how much he paid for it, but the figure is now lost in the mists of time. I do remember thinking that it was exceptionally cheap for a 650; way less than a Japanese 250, as I recall. I have no recollection whatsoever regarding the cost of the Harley, but whatever it was, it was too much.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

It`s always interesting to watch these accordion factory videos but impossible to determine product quality from any of them.
Being N. Korea is so isolated who really knows ?  I can`t imagine they build a better accordion than their Chinese counterparts do .
  Having had a few different Chinese accordions in my shop for various repairs I can emphatically say the Chinese accordions simply fall far short when compared to Italian accordions. The materials, construction,  and workmanship are substandard when compared to a similar Italian instrument . 
 That said , what would any rational person expect ? Just look at the cost of a typical new Chinese made 4/5 voice , full size keyboard with the usual bevy of treble and bass changers and with supposedly ? (hand made) Cagnoni reeds for $1,400 USD. Hand made reeds is a broad term and in this case might also infer hand tuned (tipo a mano). 

. A purchase order through Alibaba might even get you 10 of these for the price of one similar Italian made instrument .
  Granted , these Chinese accordion undoubtedly work and play as intended for the most part especially when given a bit of TLC by the importing sellers shop but I never met or do I know of any accomplished accordion player in the US who have ever used one especially when performing. 
 Having said all that , on Utube there are a multitude of highly accomplished Chinese accordionists young and old , playing these same substandard Chinese accordions  that would likely prove me wrong. I`m always impressed with them.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Accord...061872?hash=item41fbf5c3b0:g:LC4AAOSwDNRceJBZ

If we consider that hundreds of thousands of musicians worldwide probably dont have the wide choice of instruments that others do, then the kids in China, or wherever, will probably make do with what they have and make a very decent job of it. 

Pro American musicians will undoubtedly go for the best they can afford, and that will not typically be something made anywhere other than Italy, unless it says Hohner on the front. 

I cannot be certain, but would opine that the majority of forum members arent pro players, and as such tend to seek out what is available without having to pay for a top make. I have spent thousands over the years on various musical instruments and unfortunately they all suffered from one serious quality issue - the guy who played them!

Many of us are in the quest to find that instrument that we believe will make us turn the corner and rise to the next level. Some beginners buy the best they can afford in the belief that theyll be able to sell if it doesnt work out. Some go for the cheapest they can find in the belief it isnt worth the risk. To this day I wouldnt like to say what is the best approach, as it can take a very long time to sell an accordion here in the UK, especially if its an expensive model. 

All I will say is if you are approaching middle age or past it when you are starting out it probably wouldnt matter that much. The accordion is easier to play than a piano, but not that much easier.

 

[Tom]

I don't know, John. Most musicians I know try to get the best combination of sound, playability, and reliability at the price they can afford. They are smart enough to realize the difference, and do the research to get there. They realize that a good sounding, easiest playing instrument is way more fun to play, and consequently inspires them to improve as a musician. The cheap, flimsy guitar, flute, violin, accordion, whatever doesn't last long and the quick upgrade, or, if lucky enough, the first decent instrument often will make the difference between quitting and success.

 

[jozz]

Agree, you get the best of what you can afford.

I've met pro's (concert players) who invest in an instrument for life, huge cost at first, but if you write that off over years it's very cheap. Sometimes they are sponsored.

Another guy who bought my Concerto a while back was more of a regional pro (music teacher, workshops, small venues etc.) and he was perfectly happy with it. But those guys don't get paid a lot.

And here I am, not a pro but upgrading to my Bugari, sort of "unnecessary".

 

[debra]

I dont know, John.  Most musicians I know try to get the best combination of sound, playability, and reliability at the price they can afford.  They are smart enough to realize the difference, and do the research to get there.  They realize that a good sounding, easiest playing instrument is way more fun to play, and consequently inspires them to improve as a musician.   The cheap, flimsy guitar, flute, violin, accordion, whatever doesnt last long and the quick upgrade, or, if lucky enough, the first decent instrument often will make the difference between quitting and success.

Very well said! You have to consider your goals as well as the cost of the instrument. Not being a pro I cannot see myself spending 25.000 to 30.000 euro on a new top of the line Italian accordion, even though theoretically I could perhaps afford it (at the expense of other nice things in life). I have several less expensive accordions and each of them give me pleasure for their different properties, and the most expensive ones I do have will probably become too large and heavy as I get older. A good example of why the most expensive and new examples are not needed is the dutch accordion duo Melancolique: https://www.acmel.nl/am/accordion/ame.htm who play very nicely (nothing difficult) and they do not use expensive new accordions and still sound great.
Reliability is an often overlooked property as well. For accompanying songs in public for instance it is hard to beat an old Hohner Verdi II N. The reeds are simple machine reeds that may use quite a bit of air but they never fail to play because of dust particles. Simple mechanics, and absolutely 100% reliable. A bayan on the other hand has very tight tolerances and a (high) reed may block or temporarily go out of tune due to dust particles (happened to me just last Saturday) or a convertor mechanism on an expensive Italian accordion may jam when its not exactly in the on or off position... Once I was at a concert of Kurylenko whose (then) brand new Jupiter bayan jammed with a pallet stuck open deep in the cassotto...

 

[Tom]

Thanks Jozz and Paul. Yup, I've already bought the stand and 72 bass replacement due to weight issues. I think the sound of the Melancolique accordion suits the style very well.

 

[Deleted member 48]

The N Korean accordion factory video has German and English subtitles. Interesting 14 minutes video document:

The Development of 'Unbangul' Accordion Brand in the DPRK (eng. subt.)

 

[Dingo40]

Well...no matter what else, at least Kim Il Sung appears to have been a patron of the accordion!?

 

[debra]

Thanks for the new link to the video (the original one seems to have disappeared).
I'm sure there are more North Korean accordions around than just the ones with the "Unbangul" logo.
There are fakes of several Italian accordions, and I believe that the bayans they show in the video are the Jupiter bayans (with the "star" inside the first letter of Jupiter). In the video you can see that these bayans do not yet have any brand logo.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Did you see the two videos on YT of a recital a group of North Korean accordion students gave at the Moscow Gnesin Music Academy?
Some bayans have Korean (?) names on it.

Concert of North Korean accordionists, part 1

Concert of North Korean accordionists, part 2