Learning too much at the same time

[andrewjohnsson40]

I often feel that parents and other adults allow infants to hear small phrases instead of many sentences at once. They also speak in a "easy" way to infants but not to adults.
When learning a language you are most of the time, it seems, supposed to not be spoken to as an infant or something simmilar. An adult is no infant but still not an "adult" in the foreign language.
When learning the musikal language People just assume that you can hear lots of phrases at once or a full tune at once and start learning. It never really works for me. I never imitate by hearing too many phrases at once.
My teacher sometimes just assume that I am an "adult" in the musical language and technique when I am not.
Music is obviously different from normal language as music requers that you learn concrete tunes rather than just improvised normal language.
What are your expert views on this?

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hank,

I cannot offer you the "expert" view you have asked for, but I hope that common sense will serve the same purpose.

Learning (language or music) requires an individual to build knowledge from the foundations of what he or she already knows.

Music is a language, but it is a language which crosses borders. Children learn through play, which seems less appropriate to an adult. If we are to succeed, however, we must make learning fun.

The way to do that is to play only those tunes you like. Life is too short to learn tunes that mean nothing to you, especially when there are many hundreds (or thousands) of tunes that you really do like.

I hope that this is of some help.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

I don't have that experience. My teacher taught me with babysteps when I was 8. Then the next student was a 35 yo guy, and he received the same babysteps (he was just the beginner as I was).

Maybe the speedy approach can be attributed to teachers thinking they need to get results fast otherwise the adults will stop taking their lessons?

 

[Corsaire]

I'm not an expert either but many teachers have a programme that they will try to stick to. This may not suit everyone as we all learn in different ways. Unfortunately it often means working for exams, learning tunes you really dislike, scales, etc and not having time to learn anything else. I've not come across anyone who says their teacher is preparing them for exams.

 

[andrewjohnsson40]

I dont have that experience. My teacher taught me with babysteps when I was 8. Then the next student was a 35 yo guy, and he received the same babysteps (he was just the beginner as I was).

Maybe the speedy approach can be attributed to teachers thinking they need to get results fast otherwise the adults will stop taking their lessons?

You need results and a speedy approach.
I went to a group with around 40 musicians. The music leader said something about the way he arranged the tunes then they played through them. They called it training. If a child learns a language with social interaction then this should be applied to adults as well. You go to a place where they just speak the language or play through tunes.
I often feel that I am forced to learn most of the music away from social situations, in solitude.
Something is wrong! Nobody will give a child homework for being able to speak his native tongue. Examplke: telling a child that there will be social interaction next weel as well so he must practise all the sentences that will be spoken next week.
What am I missunderstanding? ,

 

[jozz]

obviously this group expects a certain entry level to participate and follow a set schedule of progression?

you mean to say: they propose a new tune at rehearsal and then everybody just plays it? ...is going to be hard without some preparation at home...

currently I am rehearsing for new band: we do 5 new tunes per rehearsal, cannot be done (properly) without homework...and 5 is the limit for a normal evening / couple of hours to nail down (say 2 playthroughs per song per evening)

 

[Tom]

Social interaction is a critical, and probably necessary, part of the learning experience, but best if fun. I hope you can find one or two people you can just play with for fun on a regular basis, even if they play other instruments. Or a casual jam or club where there is group playing with no pressure. Yes, it will take some preparations but so worth the time. When you feel ready, you can start playing for people, either solo or small group, the learning will take off.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hank,

As per my previous post, all that matters is that you learn in a way which is appropriate for YOU. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the group you are part of is not the right place for you, and I would advise that you seek the company of likeminded musicians.

I have no idea where you live, or what facilities may be available to you, but I strongly recommend that you find yourself a small folk club, if one exists near you.

If necessary, place an advertisement in your local newspaper, inviting like-minded people to meet and discuss the possibility of founding a music workshop/folk club.

Whatever you decide to do, please don't subject yourself to the kind of unnecessary pressure that you are currently labouring under.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[george garside]

I totally agree with Stephen about not subjecting yourself to unnecessary pressure for the simple reason that it will be counter productive.

To me, there seems to be a lot of confusion around as to how to learn to play the box, or for that matter any other instrument.


When I am teaching I concentrate of helping the student to learn to play the box because without that and the musical and manual dexterity trying to remember tunes as well as trying to remember how to play them tends not to work.


I use simple, well known tunes progressing to slightly lless simple as vehicles to learn to play the box and not so much as tunes in their own right. Once the box can be played reasonable ( but not virtuosa standard) in;creasing the repertoire of tunes becomes much easier whether from the dots or by ear.


and for both not brilliant dot readers and by earists it heps enormously if the tune is learned ''in the head'' i.e remembered . that coupled with a reasonable standard of instrumental technique will enable a tune to be transfered from the memory to the box in much the same way as to hu;m or whistle it - just operating the arms and fingers instead of the gob!

george

 

[JerryPH]

The only person that I am an expert with is with myself. When it comes to learning languages (I currently can speak and write in 3 languages at a native level, English, French and Czech, can converse in several other languages enough to keep myself in or out of trouble... lol).

Music is indeed a language, and I'd argue that it is one even tangibly more complex than speaking in another tongue, and there are several methods or ways of learning out there... some better than others.

In terms of learning too much at the same time, we need to define what is "too much"... and the ONLY person that has an answer to that is the person that is receiving the education. If there is a feeling of being overwhelmed or desire to slow down or even stop... yeah, you are taking in too much, so slow it down or even stop for a few brief period of time.

If there is one piece of advice that I can share... no matter what you want to learn be it physics, chemistry, mathematics or physical development, the one proven fact is that if you do something on a regular basis consistently, this is one of the biggest keys to improvement. So, as an example, rather than playing 10 hours a day but do only 2 days per week (20 hours), you are likely going to advance much faster if you do 3 hours a day and play 6 days a week (18 hours a week).

This is not a fixed defined amount, but a concept. You need to find what number of days works for you and what number of minutes or hour(s) per session best fits your abilities/needs/desires.

Smaller chunks over more days works better than fewer days and bigger chunks. This is a fact that has been proven countless times over and is a bigger factor than almost anything else. All other points as well (like speeds at what someone can learn or retention times) is all completely individual and the ones that learn the best are the ones that have taken the time to get to know themselves in these capacities.