learning to play the accordion by ear

[NigelB]

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[Soulsaver]

Here is another important point...
I refer you to post No1 -

As this is a 'Teaching and Learning' board hopefully others will start similar threads to assist those learning or progressing along more formal routes of learning .

I feel that it is important to bear in mind that this board is not intended as a platform for debate or indeed comparison of the respective advantages or disadvantages of different 'schools' of learning - that can if necessary be validly debated on 'accordion chat'
george {} :ch

If you wish to debate the merits of earist v dotists may I politely suggest you start a new topic on it..in its appropriate category; it'll get a wider audience and likely get more input.

Edit: added quote.

 

[JerryPH]

Oh, I was just having fun and sharing an opinion. I shared what I wished and if I made a mistake somewhere, I do apologize! Feel free to kill the entire post, I certainly won't mind. I also wish to state that I completely respect the opinion of everyone else here.

I'll pull back from this thread at this point. Cheers! :ch

 

[donn]

My feeling is that after 15 pages of gumming this topic over like a bunch of old guys who are still reliving the Crimean war, we're suddenly looking at a couple of novelties that might benefit from discussion. I don't know what soulsaver is talking about.

One of them is the association between reading music and technique. I assume this is about some special accordion music marked up with technical accordion suggestions?

Another is the idea that music survives over generations [only] if written down. And a closely related (I think) notion that music can be faithfully rendered from its written form [alone]. I have a hunch that this has a lot to do with the music. There are a lot of "feel" qualities that show up in folk/popular music, while European classical music marches on in its "straight" way.

I'm reminded of reconstructed drawings of dinosaurs. When I was a kid, they had smooth scaly skin like an iguana, but now they think they had feathers, so they do their best to come up with a sort of big bird thing that doesn't look too silly. But I think they realize that at this point the best they can do is nothing at all like the original. Do you ever wonder what they really sounded like, back in the Renaissance - Guillaume du Fay, et al?

Maybe it's just my own weakness at writing. I actually write out the stuff I'm trying to learn, to some extent, because it's easier to record what I've worked out note by note in writing. But those written notes are the crudest sketch, and played back by the musical notation sequencer they completely lack the feel of the music. That's my ideal -- to not play just like the written music. So I don't see the virtue of written music as a stabilizing authoritative record -- like the laughable big bird dinosaur sketch, music preserved in this way wouldn't even make a satisfactory museum exhibit.

 

[TomBR]

Ho hum, since this discussion seems to be marching away from learning by ear anyway.....

I think it's all too easy for musicians from other genres to undervalue the huge amount of musicality and artistry that goes into a good classical performance. They are certainly not just replaying the dots. I've seen televised masterclasses, there are probably plenty on Youtube now - the student plays the piece in question and you think "hey that was pretty good," then the Master plays it and you think, "oh wow! What a huge difference," but they are playing "the same notes."

There are, of course, many plodding uninspired classical performances, even on commercial CDs.

(I'm not a classical musician.)

 

[george garside]

Obviously I totally agree with soulsaver and do not consider this thread to be for comparing , knocking, or whatever different ways of learning to play music on the box. I was intended and should remain a platform to assist those who , for whatever reason, prefer to play by ear and also of course dotists who wish to add playing by ear skills to their armoury so to speak.

However, comparing the two skills/methods is fair sport and indeed hearing the views of dedicated earists and dotists batting for their respective modus operani can be interesting as long as it is respectful and acknowledges that both are indeed mainstream methods of playing.

So to put my money where my mouth is I will start a new thread for that purpose under accordion chat

George

 

[george garside]

A useful learning technique for by ear players is that once a tune can be played reasonably well in ? key of C then play it in at least 3 or 4 other keys ( of which all being well you have practiced scales) eg FGDA
Just think of the white notes as the main road on which all keys are based F & G needing only one 'diversion' from the main road , D 2 diversions and A 3 diversions.

For those without any theoretical knowledge a useful exercise in finding and playing scales is to start on any white note and then progress along the white notes until a note sounds wrong. Then try the nearest black notes until you find one that sounds right etc etc. Whilst doing this think in terms of 'do re me fa so la te do' rather than the names of the notes. Once a scale has been picked out practice it regularly!

Playing any tune in several keys is also an excellent way for dot readers learning to play by ear to reduce dependency on the dots and to become totally focused on the sound that the box is making . Honing listening skills can also often enhance playing from the dots so its a win win situation!

george

 

[Soulsaver]

Whilst doing this think in terms of 'do re me fa so la te do' rather than the names of the notes.

Go on, I'll bite: Why?

 

[george garside]

Because using do re me etc ( rather than CDE etc facilitates visualising all scales as being a similar consequitive sequence of notes irrespective of 'key' , i.e just starting somewhere else in much the same way as a singer would. It can also help readers learning to play by ear as they would presumably not have a set of dots for a veriety of keys . Put another way it facilitates transposing on the hoof!

I personally find it helpful to occasionaly and randomly play tunes in all 12 keys (on the hoof) as an exercise

george

 

[Morne]

Whilst doing this think in terms of do re me fa so la te do rather than the names of the notes.

Go on, Ill bite: Why?

For anyone who wants to read more about this, this relates to the discussion on fixed vs movable Do (Solfège).

The main advantage of the movable Do system here is that you learn relative notes. So then you can start on any note and then play +2 +1 +3 etc. Hence facilitating transposing.

The fixed Do system is used in certain countries, like in Eastern Europe, and there Do Re Me refer to the actual note names, C D E.

There are reasons for preferring either or, and both. But thats a different discussion.

 

[george garside]

I was of course referring to the movable 'do' - sorry if not making that clear has caused anybody any confusion

george

 

[Jack Campin]

One situation where it really does help to get a look at the sheet music: when you're playing an instrument which is limited in range or tonality. You want to know in advance if you can actually get all the notes, and if so what you'll have to do to get them:

- set your harp levers
- tune your harp appropriately if it doesn't have any
- set your capo
- swap the chanter in your bagpipe
- pick the right key of harmonica
- pick the right pitch of ocarina
- put the appropriate crook in your valveless horn
- get your other melodeon or hang drum out of its bag
- sing an E double harmonic minor scale to get your voice used to it

Reading the details of the tune is secondary; with klezmer I often just scan through the score, pick an instrument that can play it and then learn the tune by ear.

Some ethnomusicologists print tunes with the notes used listed in pitch order at the start (I think Bartok started this). It's a really good idea.

 

[george garside]

I agree with Jack that it is important to know whether your instrument has the range of notes to play a particular tune ( or whether if adjustable it needs to be adjusted!) I also agree that if you have the written music and a limited knowledge thereof it will give you the required info.

However those who do not read music at all and those who may read as well as play be ear but do not have access to a set of dots can reach a swift, maybe swifter, conclusion by simply attempting to play the tune!

A lot of fun aand satisfaction can of course be had by indulging in the noble art of 'faking' notes you havn't got! maybe those playing by ear feel less inhibited about so doing and have greater faking skills - so to speak!


george

 

[NigelB]

.

 

[acordiansam]

People that only learn to play by ear notes or dots have no meaning. Also 1,3,5'7 the same. Only the pitch and how long to hold it. I was luckie I had a teacher that would work with both. It is not until they learn notes and why they go togeather. Even though I have not read a hole sheet of music in years. I still use it to find that odd cord or pregression. My ear is not perfect and will fill in the blanks as it seems fit where I did not know the cord or it comes so fast I can't catch it. The thing about playing by ear most of the time if you don't have it most likely you never will. Where as by the notes. Just about anyone can learn. Still what's best is a teacher that works with you're strong points and helps you're week points. No matter witch side there on.

 

[george garside]

Playing 'by ear' is , for most people, not a 'gift' but a skill that can be taught and learned just as reading written music can. Of course there are those who do brilliantly at either and those who struggle to achieve a fairly basic standard.

There are obviously some extremely gifted people who can hear a tune once and then play it brilliantly, eg Sir Jimmy Shand and the present Scottish Senior Accordion champion 18 year old Brandon Mcphee, but they are few and far between!

However learning to play by ear or from the dots must done alongside leaning and practicing instrumental technique i.e. scales, bellows control , bass exercises etc etc. i.e there are two components - learning to play the instrument and learning to play particular tunes/pieces or whatevers!

george

 

[george garside]

just bringing this one up to remind newer members ( and others!) that this extremely popular thread (9326 views and 176 replies) is still there although it has been dormant since april.

Have we covered everything, asked all the daft or not so daft questions, recounted our experiences, or has everybody buggered off and learned to read the dots!?

george

 

[dan]

I was scared off by the prospect of reading through 17 pages. Might be helpful to pull out a choice quote or two to get the ball rolling again.

 

[JerryPH]

just bringing this one up to remind newer members ( and others!) that this extremely popular thread (9326 views and 176 replies) is still there although it has been dormant since april.

Have we covered everything, asked all the daft or not so daft questions, recounted our experiences, or has everybody buggered off and learned to read the dots!?

george

Actually, you laugh, but I just earlier this week taught a guitarist how to read music... and it DEFINITELY took less time for him to learn the basics of how to read music than it would have to read through the 17 pages in this thread... lol

 

[george garside]

I was scared off by the prospect of reading through 17 pages. Might be helpful to pull out a choice quote or two to get the ball rolling again.

Dan, I presume you are playing (?mainly) by ear and if so perhaps you would like to tell us where you are up to, what you are finding difficult and what you find easy, what type of music you tend to play etc etc
george