Not sure what has happened, I was replying this morning, to what Soulsaver had replied to George's Jan 09,2016 2:53 am, comments, but when I hit submit I seem to have lost both my reply and Soulsavers reply. They showed up on page 15 of the thread but have disappeared from my computer. Sorry about that, I may be able to play the accordion by ear but this computer stuff baffles me even more than playing by note.
learning to play the accordion by ear
- Thread starter george garside
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No problem Soulsaver, and thanks for the possible explanation. I did notice you went off line right about when I hit submit. I was just going to blame it on Murphey, as nothing else made sense at the time. 
I was just commenting on how hard I seem to find it learning to play by note. My sister who is accomplished on the piano has started taking lessons on the accordion and is doing well at it, all by note, but then she understands basic music theory, something I do not, even though I have bought books on it and keep trying to learn it. I can not get it to stick in my head, I guess I should have taken it more serious when the old noggin was still young enough to learn something new. What's that they say about teaching an old dog new trick?! :roll:
I have heard it said that playing by ear is not for everyone, and my sister says she is completely lost with out the notes. Playing by ear works for me, but it tends to get played my way rather than exactly as written in the book so, it can be a challenge for someone depending strictly on the notes to enjoy playing with me, unless I can adapt my ear to their playing.
At the end of the day the same thing applies to both styles of playing, just keep practising and enjoy the music, it will get better and easier. :ch
Terry {}
I was just commenting on how hard I seem to find it learning to play by note. My sister who is accomplished on the piano has started taking lessons on the accordion and is doing well at it, all by note, but then she understands basic music theory, something I do not, even though I have bought books on it and keep trying to learn it. I can not get it to stick in my head, I guess I should have taken it more serious when the old noggin was still young enough to learn something new. What's that they say about teaching an old dog new trick?! :roll:
I have heard it said that playing by ear is not for everyone, and my sister says she is completely lost with out the notes. Playing by ear works for me, but it tends to get played my way rather than exactly as written in the book so, it can be a challenge for someone depending strictly on the notes to enjoy playing with me, unless I can adapt my ear to their playing.
At the end of the day the same thing applies to both styles of playing, just keep practising and enjoy the music, it will get better and easier. :ch
Terry {}
Farmer T said:
Terry. thats a pure distillation of the whole luggite ~ dotty debate
george garside
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Agreed! Rigid dotists and rigid earists don't always mix well as eg one might say something on the lines of '' you should have played a C# minim there! '' whislt t'other particularly if leading a tune, band or whatever might say something like '' you weren't quite with me there!''
Perhaps the answer is for both to hone their listening skills ( which is not the same as playing by ear) so that they are better able to blend in with each other irrespective of who is the nominal ''leader'' of a particular tune or piece of music??
The same probably goes for 2 earists OR 2 dotists playing together!
george
Perhaps the answer is for both to hone their listening skills ( which is not the same as playing by ear) so that they are better able to blend in with each other irrespective of who is the nominal ''leader'' of a particular tune or piece of music??
The same probably goes for 2 earists OR 2 dotists playing together!
george
donn
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Farmer T said:
As you probably know, in some styles of music, the written notation is only an approximation of the music that an experienced player would actually play. Swing feel is a classic example - the music will be written square, but its to be played in more of a 12/8 meter. In principle this applies to all music to one extent or another - written notation isnt a rigorously complete description of whats to be played - but curiously enough, musical notation works better for music thats commonly learned via musical notation.
So ... I suppose that may have little to do with the issue, but if in fact youre playing with people who are sticking too rigidly to the written note values, then of course that rather calls for them to adapt their own ears.
A
acordiansam
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Just becouse you play by ear does not mean you can't play it like the dots say you just have to hear it first.
When you play with people. You play with people ear or not. Every one has to be on the same page timming wise and cord wise. To play with people should be eazer if you play by ear.
When you play with people. You play with people ear or not. Every one has to be on the same page timming wise and cord wise. To play with people should be eazer if you play by ear.
Stephen Hawkins
Experienced Gentleman.
Hello George,
I am very new to this forum, and to the Piano Accordion. As you may have read in my earlier posts, I played Clarinet in the 1960's. This was done entirely by ear, and I would add tunes to my repertoire as I went along. Familiarity with the instrument was the key which eventually opened the door to confident playing.
I have already suggested, elsewhere on this site, that novices in a region should get together to practice and to share information. This would be even better if more advanced players were to lend their time to such projects. This idea is not beyond the realms of possibility, though I confess that I have had no takers to date.
Accordion playing need not be done in isolation. In my mind, I picture people sitting at home and struggling with their instruments for lack of very basic help and advice. My experience of Accordion Clubs has not been particularly encouraging, and I feel that a "grass roots" movement would improve and expand the accordions appeal.
Elitism appears to be winning its battle against logic, and I wonder if anyone here wishes to address the matter. I am prepared to arrange the provision of a suitable venue in my region, but only if enough people want to get involved.
Please believe me, this is not an attack on established Accordion Clubs, but rather the identification of a problem which is looking for a solution.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
I am very new to this forum, and to the Piano Accordion. As you may have read in my earlier posts, I played Clarinet in the 1960's. This was done entirely by ear, and I would add tunes to my repertoire as I went along. Familiarity with the instrument was the key which eventually opened the door to confident playing.
I have already suggested, elsewhere on this site, that novices in a region should get together to practice and to share information. This would be even better if more advanced players were to lend their time to such projects. This idea is not beyond the realms of possibility, though I confess that I have had no takers to date.
Accordion playing need not be done in isolation. In my mind, I picture people sitting at home and struggling with their instruments for lack of very basic help and advice. My experience of Accordion Clubs has not been particularly encouraging, and I feel that a "grass roots" movement would improve and expand the accordions appeal.
Elitism appears to be winning its battle against logic, and I wonder if anyone here wishes to address the matter. I am prepared to arrange the provision of a suitable venue in my region, but only if enough people want to get involved.
Please believe me, this is not an attack on established Accordion Clubs, but rather the identification of a problem which is looking for a solution.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
You may get more interest if you include:Stephen Hawkins said:
A link to elsewhere on this site
your location in your signature
add yourself here http://www.accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480 if you havent already done so
If youre of a certain age you might like to check your local U3A for accordion group(s) ... I found one 10 miles from me in Market Deeping
Stephen Hawkins
Experienced Gentleman.
Dear Bosca,
This is not an excuse, but I am not very good at providing the links you have suggested. (in fact, I don't really have a clue how to do it)
Brenda and I are involved with an organisation which comes under the umbrella of AGE UK, and which provides wide ranging services and activities for people of our age. I know that one of the organisers plays guitar at a Folk Club (not the one we go to) and will make some enquiries with her.
This may all amount to nothing, but I feel that a grass roots accordion club could provide beginners with a safe, pleasant and non-judgemental atmosphere in which to learn and practice. This would be made even better if a few improvers were to lend a little of their time in helping others to improve their skills.
As previously stated, I am not attacking established accordion clubs, nor am I trying to set up in opposition to them. My experience of one local accordion club leads me to believe that the needs of beginners are extremely low on their agenda, and that is the issue I am trying to highlight and address.
It is only my opinion, but I see a very definite need to stop and reverse the downward trend in accordion playing, and this will not be done in self-absorbed mutual appreciation societies. Accordion Clubs which fail to reach out and engage with potential players will ultimately cause the fossilisation of a great instrument.
I just don't want to sit through hours of tedium, listening to a virtuoso performance from an accordion player who is trying to show me how good and worthy he (or she) is. Perhaps, in time, I may wish to listen to such a recital but, for now, I want to work with other novices who are struggling to improve their skills.
The Piano Accordion deserves better advocates than it currently has, and I see little evidence of anyone reaching out to communities or community organisations. How many of the better players on here have ever approached a pensioner's or youth group? How many have contacted the military in order to inform people who are due to leave the service that they are welcome to join in? Stephen Hawkins.
This is not an excuse, but I am not very good at providing the links you have suggested. (in fact, I don't really have a clue how to do it)
Brenda and I are involved with an organisation which comes under the umbrella of AGE UK, and which provides wide ranging services and activities for people of our age. I know that one of the organisers plays guitar at a Folk Club (not the one we go to) and will make some enquiries with her.
This may all amount to nothing, but I feel that a grass roots accordion club could provide beginners with a safe, pleasant and non-judgemental atmosphere in which to learn and practice. This would be made even better if a few improvers were to lend a little of their time in helping others to improve their skills.
As previously stated, I am not attacking established accordion clubs, nor am I trying to set up in opposition to them. My experience of one local accordion club leads me to believe that the needs of beginners are extremely low on their agenda, and that is the issue I am trying to highlight and address.
It is only my opinion, but I see a very definite need to stop and reverse the downward trend in accordion playing, and this will not be done in self-absorbed mutual appreciation societies. Accordion Clubs which fail to reach out and engage with potential players will ultimately cause the fossilisation of a great instrument.
I just don't want to sit through hours of tedium, listening to a virtuoso performance from an accordion player who is trying to show me how good and worthy he (or she) is. Perhaps, in time, I may wish to listen to such a recital but, for now, I want to work with other novices who are struggling to improve their skills.
The Piano Accordion deserves better advocates than it currently has, and I see little evidence of anyone reaching out to communities or community organisations. How many of the better players on here have ever approached a pensioner's or youth group? How many have contacted the military in order to inform people who are due to leave the service that they are welcome to join in? Stephen Hawkins.
Some clubs are about performances other are about playing together neither may be suitable for learners.
It's never easy to cater for all levels of playing and let people feel included.
I went to a group about an hours drive away, lovely people and most welcoming but I had some difficulty hearing meself* plus I'm unlikely to live long enough to catch up! They had a good repertoire but mostly not to my taste.
*I'm used to playing along with other instruments but a wall of accordion sound takes a bit of getting used to
Stephen, If you're starting a group remember you can only please some of the people, some of the time! Give some thought to opening up a new topic to pursue your interest in Accordion Clubs/Groups
And now...... back to the topic "learning to play the accordion by ear"
It's never easy to cater for all levels of playing and let people feel included.
I went to a group about an hours drive away, lovely people and most welcoming but I had some difficulty hearing meself* plus I'm unlikely to live long enough to catch up! They had a good repertoire but mostly not to my taste.
*I'm used to playing along with other instruments but a wall of accordion sound takes a bit of getting used to
Stephen, If you're starting a group remember you can only please some of the people, some of the time! Give some thought to opening up a new topic to pursue your interest in Accordion Clubs/Groups
And now...... back to the topic "learning to play the accordion by ear"
hais1273
Well-known member
Personally, I'd recommend going along to an accordion club. We go to one in Sussex, generally it's very enjoyable, the other people are friendly, theres no pressure to play any of the tunes. If you want to, you can do a solo spot, or not. My last one went horribly wrong at one point. As a relative beginner, I find it's very useful to play in the company of some very strong musicians, who can carry the peice along. There aren't any members of the picky brigade being sniffy about perceived errors either, the nearest anybody has got to being critical was when on of the leaders had to say "Unison chaps, not harmony".
The accoustics of the room can be harsh at times, I sometimes think Dante must have imagined a simialar sound when he wrote "inferno", and some of the tunes really aren't to my taste, but it's good experience to play out of your comfort zone.
A good way to build confidence. Either by ear or reading the notes.
The accoustics of the room can be harsh at times, I sometimes think Dante must have imagined a simialar sound when he wrote "inferno", and some of the tunes really aren't to my taste, but it's good experience to play out of your comfort zone.
A good way to build confidence. Either by ear or reading the notes.
Stephen Hawkins
Experienced Gentleman.
Dear Bosca & Hais,
I don't think I'm a million miles off topic with my posts, as they do relate to the subject of learning to play an instrument.
As for attending a local Accordion Club, I may well have done so had they not totally ignored every attempt of mine to contact them. Since bumping into this wall of complacent indifference, I have met two other chaps who have had exactly the same experience. One of these blokes is still awaiting a response to an email he sent in December 2014. My own 'phone calls and emails have led to the same unsatisfactory outcome.
As to whether or not this is bumbling incompetence or complete disregard, I cannot say. I guess you can take your pick between systemic failure or very bad manners. Either way, it is no help to me.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
I don't think I'm a million miles off topic with my posts, as they do relate to the subject of learning to play an instrument.
As for attending a local Accordion Club, I may well have done so had they not totally ignored every attempt of mine to contact them. Since bumping into this wall of complacent indifference, I have met two other chaps who have had exactly the same experience. One of these blokes is still awaiting a response to an email he sent in December 2014. My own 'phone calls and emails have led to the same unsatisfactory outcome.
As to whether or not this is bumbling incompetence or complete disregard, I cannot say. I guess you can take your pick between systemic failure or very bad manners. Either way, it is no help to me.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
learning to play the accordion <SIZE size="150"><HIGHLIGHT highlight="#ffff00">[highlight=#ffff00]by ear[/highlight]</HIGHLIGHT>
In my view Accordion Clubs is a separate subject but rather than flog a dead horse, 'I'm out'
In my view Accordion Clubs is a separate subject but rather than flog a dead horse, 'I'm out'
Stephen Hawkins
Experienced Gentleman.
Dear Bosca,
I unreservedly apologise for causing you to flagellate a deceased horse, though expanding the words "by ear" was as unnecessary as it was insulting. I assure you that I am not stupid and, with corrected vision, I am able to read words in normal typeface.
As I am learning by ear, I thought it entirely appropriate to mention a few of the barriers I have encountered. I also thought it would be a good idea to bring other novices together in a spirit of mutual assistance. Though this may not seem relevant to you, perhaps others will more forgiving of my motives.
I am, admittedly, a novice accordion player, but please do not underestimate my other abilities.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
I unreservedly apologise for causing you to flagellate a deceased horse, though expanding the words "by ear" was as unnecessary as it was insulting. I assure you that I am not stupid and, with corrected vision, I am able to read words in normal typeface.
As I am learning by ear, I thought it entirely appropriate to mention a few of the barriers I have encountered. I also thought it would be a good idea to bring other novices together in a spirit of mutual assistance. Though this may not seem relevant to you, perhaps others will more forgiving of my motives.
I am, admittedly, a novice accordion player, but please do not underestimate my other abilities.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.
<COLOR color=#0000FF>Apology, albeit given in poor grace, acceptedStephen Hawkins said:
If you wish to establish a dialogue Stephen please do so via the pm system and enable this thread to get back on topic.
Admin May I suggest a little housekeeping and removal of some of the off topic stuff
george garside
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I have not posted for some time as I managed to get myself locked out of the forum having cocked up my password and despite numerous attemts to get back in have only just succeeded!! ( I am a complete luddite when it comes to computors)
However and to get this much used bit of the forum baack on track I would like to draw attention to the several youtube vids of Brandon Mcphee the 18 year old Scottish Champion accordionist. He plays a 3 row Shand Morino and fended off many first class piano box players with his diabolical push / pull contraption ( as some would see it!)
He is now making a name for himself throughout Britain and Ireland with his band and the interesting thing is that he does not read the dots at all, playing really complicated stuff entirely by ear!
This should be of considerable comfort for those who prefer to play by ear and provide a goal that probably few of us will be able to achieve - but keep trying chaps!
george :ch
However and to get this much used bit of the forum baack on track I would like to draw attention to the several youtube vids of Brandon Mcphee the 18 year old Scottish Champion accordionist. He plays a 3 row Shand Morino and fended off many first class piano box players with his diabolical push / pull contraption ( as some would see it!)
He is now making a name for himself throughout Britain and Ireland with his band and the interesting thing is that he does not read the dots at all, playing really complicated stuff entirely by ear!
This should be of considerable comfort for those who prefer to play by ear and provide a goal that probably few of us will be able to achieve - but keep trying chaps!
george :ch
Only thing that I can say is that if all one does is play by ear, you can only play what you hear, whereas someone that can read, will be able to learn songs that they've never heard and play the songs properly from a technical standpoint. The few people that I have heard that were excellent musicians on the accordion and played by ear were technical messes... lol.
In the end, I doubt there is a bad or a good way, but there is an individual preference way and that's the one that each person needs to follow themselves.
In the end, I doubt there is a bad or a good way, but there is an individual preference way and that's the one that each person needs to follow themselves.
D
dchurch
Guest
JerryPH,
Good point. The down side of strictly playing by ear is not being able to play written music which can certainly lead to being a technical mess, especially if a goal or necessity is to play in sync with other musicians who are adhering to a written form of music.
It would seem best to do both, if you have the desire.
But a major plus for playing by ear is not just playing what I have heard. As a reader I was never able to invent on the fly or play music that was mearly in my head. Now I can.
In my personal situation I no longer had a need or desire to play from notation. I quit cold turkey and never looked back.
George, after about 2 years of strictly playing by ear I played faster and more complex music than I could ever site read. I guess that's to be expected, site reading complex music is not a easy level to reach. *Naturally after reading and enough rehearsal I could play error free, or memorize the music given enough time.
I believe playing by ear uses a different combination of thought and muscle memory than playing by notation. Most folks seem to have a gift for one methoud or the other, and some master both (or at least try).
Disclaimer: I've played multiple instuments but the accordion is not one of them. I simply stumbled into this friendly forum while doing some "by ear" research.
High regards and respect to musicians alike,
Dave
Good point. The down side of strictly playing by ear is not being able to play written music which can certainly lead to being a technical mess, especially if a goal or necessity is to play in sync with other musicians who are adhering to a written form of music.
It would seem best to do both, if you have the desire.
But a major plus for playing by ear is not just playing what I have heard. As a reader I was never able to invent on the fly or play music that was mearly in my head. Now I can.
In my personal situation I no longer had a need or desire to play from notation. I quit cold turkey and never looked back.
George, after about 2 years of strictly playing by ear I played faster and more complex music than I could ever site read. I guess that's to be expected, site reading complex music is not a easy level to reach. *Naturally after reading and enough rehearsal I could play error free, or memorize the music given enough time.
I believe playing by ear uses a different combination of thought and muscle memory than playing by notation. Most folks seem to have a gift for one methoud or the other, and some master both (or at least try).
Disclaimer: I've played multiple instuments but the accordion is not one of them. I simply stumbled into this friendly forum while doing some "by ear" research.
High regards and respect to musicians alike,
Dave
Oh, that does bring up another point... If you have a group of musicians that all play by ear, all you get is a group of improvisations to your music that they heard. If you have a group that reads, it can be led as a single entity to one final musical goal that is written down and guided by one person's intent. This performance can then also be shared and played in the same manner by others.
Another advantage... the vast majority of people that play by ear never play a song EXACTLY as they heard it and over time that music changes. That music that you created on the fly has very little chance of surviving integral for more than 1-2 "generations" before changes are introduced... unless written down. Kind of like having 10 people in a room and each person whispers a phrase to the ear of the person next go them. By the 10th person, that original phrase has changed entirely, possibly several times over, losing all the intent and meaning that the first person originally "created".
One may create something new but there is no way to preserve it or assure consistency without being able to write it down. I also don't believe that any system is so restrictive that someone could create any form of music that could not be preserved via notation.
All original work starts out as thought, but if none of it is saved unless recorded in one form or another, via notation or a less accurate manner, listening to a recording done by the original artist and accepting the variations that the listening artist will invariably introduce over time.
The value of being able to read and write music can be answered by asking one simple question;
Of all the great artists that ever lived, how many original works that were ever created and not placed in notation due to the inability to read or write music, have survived the test of time in their original form? The answer is... unless this task was passed to someone else that could read and write music... none survived.
Another advantage... the vast majority of people that play by ear never play a song EXACTLY as they heard it and over time that music changes. That music that you created on the fly has very little chance of surviving integral for more than 1-2 "generations" before changes are introduced... unless written down. Kind of like having 10 people in a room and each person whispers a phrase to the ear of the person next go them. By the 10th person, that original phrase has changed entirely, possibly several times over, losing all the intent and meaning that the first person originally "created".
One may create something new but there is no way to preserve it or assure consistency without being able to write it down. I also don't believe that any system is so restrictive that someone could create any form of music that could not be preserved via notation.
All original work starts out as thought, but if none of it is saved unless recorded in one form or another, via notation or a less accurate manner, listening to a recording done by the original artist and accepting the variations that the listening artist will invariably introduce over time.
The value of being able to read and write music can be answered by asking one simple question;
Of all the great artists that ever lived, how many original works that were ever created and not placed in notation due to the inability to read or write music, have survived the test of time in their original form? The answer is... unless this task was passed to someone else that could read and write music... none survived.
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