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KILLER ACCORDION

Tom

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Saundersbp; These names were both contenders. I'd have gone with the Bugari except for the weight.

Tom; I grew up in SoCal and believe I am a misplaced Mexican. My favorite food is Mexican, I love tequila, I (we) won the Mexican 1000 in 1968, I've raced sailboats into Mexico, been in all the Mexican states except two, cruised the Sea of Cortez in a 14 ft sailboat and owned a house there for 12 years (Nayarit). I also LOVE the beautiful women. Musically, I have always liked the border genres, (TexMex, Norteno, Conjunto). Flaco Jimenez is my accordion hero (Ayala is pretty good, too). When selecting my 1st box (a PA), I figured a chromatic ought to be able to do anything a DBA could do (although I have discovered that not to be the case) and be more versatile (I moved to CBA early on, once I woke up). I have seen Mexican accordionists play the border styles on both PA and CBA, so I know it is possible. I harbor no illusions that buying a DBA will turn me into Flaco Delgado, but the only i-net instructional vids I've found feature the DBA. Plus, I sold some junk I've collected over the years and could afford it (you can never have too many accordions). GCF, as I'm told this tuning works best with string instruments and is the most common for border music. I'll post some pics once it arrives. BTW, what part of the USA do you call home?

96Bass; Yes, that is the offender. I have also gold leafed the grille for a little more pizzazz (see pic). Note the French system xtra bass row. Still getting used to it but so far I like it. I don't use diminished chords very much and can make them when necessary using treble buttons. It should be noted here that I like the accordion, just not the QC (or lack thereof).

Press on,
Waldo
Cool story Waldo, thanks!!!! I live in Wisconsin but I've never been heard any live Mexican accordion music here (except on the local Spanish radio). As I've said, the urban myth here is that the accordion market is good in Milwaukee because of the Tex Mex music, but I don't go to the bars for covid reasons, and I don't speak Spanish. 😞😞🪗
 

donn

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Note the French system xtra bass row. Still getting used to it but so far I like it. I don't use diminished chords very much and can make them when necessary using treble buttons.
I use the diminished chord as such for only one tune, but it's there. Stop me if you know about this.

The "7th" row actually contains the diminished chords, one column off. I occasionally wonder if makes a noticeable difference in how the 7th sounds. On the common 2+4 Stradella, the 7th includes the root note, and omits the 5th, but on 3+3 it includes the 5th and omits the root instead. That makes it a diminished triad starting on the 3rd - 3rd of that column, but on the root of the next sharp-ward column. I suppose there could be accordions where this isn't the case, but I think we've established that it's this way even on some 80-bass 2+3 Stradella accordions.

The other curiosity (for me anyway) is that the 3rd bass row isn't real standard. I take the position that the standard configuration should be uniform across the bass rows, so whereas it pitch descends a half step as you go up and back from the first bass row, so does it descend a half step up and back from second to third. That makes the third row Ab in the C column - not apparently super useful, but because of the diagonal arrangement of columns, the next column is actually closer at hand up there, and there we find the more useful Eb. Other accordions, possibly in regions where the use of Belgian square layouts has knocked things a little out of whack, I understand they put the Eb in the C row.
 

96Bass

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96Bass; Yes, that is the offender. I have also gold leafed the grille for a little more pizzazz (see pic). Note the French system xtra bass row. Still getting used to it but so far I like it. I don't use diminished chords very much and can make them when necessary using treble buttons. It should be noted here that I like the accordion, just not the QC (or lack thereof).

Press on,
Waldo
If that is indeed the actual accordion you purchased, the blame may not lie with Beltuna. The Liberty Bellow demonstration video was posted May 2019. The accordion had been on the sales floor for over 2.5 years before you purchased it and it is quite possible it had been previously sold and returned.
The incorrect screws may have been installed after leaving Beltuna due to some mishap at the dealer's store. No telling what abuse it may have endured over the time it was on the store's sales floor.
I purchased a "new" accordion from Liberty Bellows and the accordion arrived with a crack in the body of the instrument. There is no way to tell if the accordion left the store already damaged or if it happened in transit, although the shipping carton showed no sign of damage.
I returned the accordion and it is once again listed as "new" on their website with no mention that the accordion had been damaged or that it had been previously sold and returned. It was on the sales floor for at least 7 months before I purchased it.

 
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Waldo

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Donn,
I did not know that, Thanks. I mostly hunt and peck for the pitches I want, as I don't read music on the fly. Once I find the progression I want, I memorize the pattern. Not the best way to go, but It's all I have for now. I'm somewhat behind on the bass side learning curve because I'm trying to break the treble side "looking" habit, which demands most of my concentration. I intend to go about it properly when I commence learning the DBA. Having only 3 rows should help me stay in alignment, as will a thumb on the button board edge.
Thanks again for the tips.

Press on....
Waldo
 

Mr Mark

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Regarding the Liberty Bellows accordion...the bass buttons are also different. I wonder about the stories this accordion has to tell that no one will hear.

Oddly enough.
 

Waldo

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96;
Being as the machine screws are metric, I'm pretty sure it was a factory F/U.
 

Siegmund

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The "7th" row actually contains the diminished chords, one column off. I occasionally wonder if makes a noticeable difference in how the 7th sounds. On the common 2+4 Stradella, the 7th includes the root note, and omits the 5th, but on 3+3 it includes the 5th and omits the root instead. That makes it a diminished triad starting on the 3rd - 3rd of that column, but on the root of the next sharp-ward column. I suppose there could be accordions where this isn't the case, but I think we've established that it's this way even on some 80-bass 2+3 Stradella accordions.

If you're the type who likes to hear all 4 notes of a seventh chord, it quite often sounds as good or better to play (e.g.) G+Ddim than D+G7. If it weren't such a long stretch I would play them that way quite often. The times that one specifically wants only 1-3-7 without 5 are rare enough in classical or folk music that I would be perfectly happy to have only a 357 row rather than separate seventh and diminished rows. It'd be nice to have it be a shorter stretch.

It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.
 

debra

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If you're the type who likes to hear all 4 notes of a seventh chord, it quite often sounds as good or better to play (e.g.) G+Ddim than D+G7. If it weren't such a long stretch I would play them that way quite often. The times that one specifically wants only 1-3-7 without 5 are rare enough in classical or folk music that I would be perfectly happy to have only a 357 row rather than separate seventh and diminished rows. It'd be nice to have it be a shorter stretch.

It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.
Getting all 4 notes of a seventh chord is easy enough by just pressing the major chord button and seventh together. And for a complete dim you press dim together with another dim three buttons up or down, because there are only 3 dim chords in existence. There are many more interesting chords that are formed using two chord buttons. The only chords you cannot form are augmented fifth (like C-E-G#) because all chord buttons have either one major and one minor third or two minor thirds. Some accordions were built purposely with an augmented fifth instead of a diminished row.
 

donn

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It'd be nicer still if the the button that played B-D-F was in the G row than in the D row..heh...but that bit of common sense appears to have taken root only in Russia and never spread anywhere else.

I think it's the other way around?

My Cavagnolo does put B-D-F on the G column. I've read that the Russian version is offset, but I that that's starting from the standard 3+3 with "3/5/7 no root" 7th row. Starting from the common 2+4 Stradella, it's just a matter of omitting the 7th row.
 

96Bass

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96;
Being as the machine screws are metric, I'm pretty sure it was a factory F/U.
Since the vast majority of accordions are made in countries where metric is the standard, I would expect that the hardware in an accordion repair shop would be metric regardless of where it is located.
I find it hard to believe that the wrong type screws were installed at the factory. My bet is that they were replaced with the wrong type at the retailer. We will never know for sure, that, we can be sure of.
 

Tom

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It's almost impossible to get good help these days.
 

Dingo40

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On further reflection, it seems to me there's been an error in the design of how the shoulder straps are attached to this particular instrument.
I note the shoulder straps of my "better " accordions are anchored using a u-bolt each, the u-bolts attached to the instrument internally with machine nuts: stronger than wood screws in this application.🙂
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.
 
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debra

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On further reflection, it seems to me there's been an error in the design of how the shoulder straps are attached to this particular instrument.
I note the shoulder straps of my "better " accordions are anchored using a u-bolt each, the u-bolts attached internally using machine nuts: stronger than wood screws in this application.🙂
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.
The "u-bolt" is indeed the more common approach these days. That doesn't mean other types of "anchor" cannot work safely. Many people (including myself) always had doubts about the Hohner Morino anchor, commonly called the "Gardinenstange" (curtain rod) because it doesn't look very sturdy, yet it has been holding on my 18kg Artiste X S for many years and hasn't failed on all my friends using it on their Morino. (Some mistrusted it enough to have it replaced by u-bolt brackets.)
An important aspect is the location of the bracket. When it is on top of the accordion (in the playing orientation) the full weight of the accordion is trying to pull out the screws (or bolts). But when it is at the back then most of the weight of the accordion is applying a perpendicular force which is much less likely to pull out the screws. (On the Morino the "Gardinenstange" is mounted on the back.)
 

jozz

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stronger than wood screws in this application.🙂
The use of a separate u-bolt for each strap, further adds to the security of the instrument.
not necessarily,
wood screws of this size can easily hold 20kg withdrawal force lengthwise each (if penetrated enough in proper wood)

the accordion is not even 10kg total, has at least two anchor points and is not pulling straight out of the wood

(although I agree it would 'feel' more secure to have an expensive accordion fitted with (u-)bolts)
 

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