Italian vs German reed wax

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

I've refurbished and repaired many accordions, and am curious about the difference between Italian and German wax. It's not unusual to come across 70 year old Italian accordions where the wax is still intact, whereas with German accordions it nearly always needs replacement. What is the difference in formula? Also, why do we even continue to use wax? Has no one come up with a longer lasting material for gluing reeds to blocks? Perhaps it made sense to use wax when all ventiles were leather, since the interior leathers would need to be replaced before the wax wore out anyway, but with modern plastic ventiles lasting much longer, it would seem there should also be a longer lasting alternative to beeswax and rosin.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Note: I live in Louisiana, where the Cajun accordion builders use toilet wax from the hardware store to glue reeds. No idea how this folksy approach holds up over time compared with Italian reed wax.

 

[debra]

I have not noticed a significant difference between Italian and German wax (even considering which German accordions are actually made in Italy) but when accordions are always stored in a very dry environment the wax tends to dry out and become brittle. A very bad case I have seen was on an (Italian) Pigini Sirius bayan, and these are not nearly 70 years old.
Inside valves (ventiles) can be replaced without removing the reed plate. It is a delicate time consuming job but it can be done. So that is definitely not the main reason for using wax. I have cursed accordions (and their repairers) that came with the reeds held in place with glue instead of wax. And I won't even mention the joker who suggests to use bathroom silicone...

 

[Ffingers]

I wish that you would come to Western Australia and show some of the "professionals" how it should be done.
"Butchered" is the word which I use to describe some of the work which I have seen.

 

[debra]

I wish that you would come to Western Australia and show some of the "professionals" how it should be done.
"Butchered" is the word which I use to describe some of the work which I have seen.

Butchered is certainly a more accurate word for some of the "handiwork" I have seen... But I sometimes try to stay polite (most often not, though).
Let me share just two pictures of what I have seen... (reeds all held in place by glue, and the space in between the reed plates not even filled completely either...).

And this: how's this for voicing a reed?

This is actually from the same accordion, so not all reed blocks had the reeds glued in place. Some actually had wax.

 

[Walker]

Replacing leather & wax for... plastic & glue. Just swapping out the natural for the synthetic. Oh, it may last longer - and done in the name of 'progress'. I shudder at the thought of that word sometimes.

But that's the vast gulf that separates the craftsman from the average repairer.

 

[Ffingers]

As you might remember, Paul, I am merely a late-in-life entry into the field of squeezies and have little-to-no learning nor expertise on the matter, but the expression "...it stands out like a dogs balls..." covers my experiences very well.
Scratchings on both ends of the reads which would gain a hungry rat accolades for voracity and bits of plastic, which looked as if they had been sculpted from a yoghurt container, used to reinforce the valve flaps on bigger bass reeds are just a couple of examples.
I dispair of finding someone in my rather remote area of the world who can fine tune my own rather delicious, somewhat under-used, instrument.

 

[Ffingers]

Replacing leather & wax for... plastic & glue. Just swapping out the natural for the synthetic. Oh, it may last longer - and done in the name of 'progress'. I shudder at the thought of that word sometimes.

But that's the vast gulf that separates the craftsman from the average repairer.

"craftsperson" please

 

[jozz]

Butchered is certainly a more accurate word for some of the "handiwork" I have seen... But I sometimes try to stay polite (most often not, though).
Let me share just two pictures of what I have seen... (reeds all held in place by glue, and the space in between the reed plates not even filled completely either...).

And this: how's this for voicing a reed?

This is actually from the same accordion, so not all reed blocks had the reeds glued in place. Some actually had wax.

Ajuto!

 

[donn]

Note: I live in Louisiana, where the Cajun accordion builders use toilet wax from the hardware store to glue reeds. No idea how this folksy approach holds up over time compared with Italian reed wax.

I would be a little worried about even the short term. I would think it will never become dry and brittle -- it might degrade over the course of centuries, but not in that particular manner -- but in a way, that's the problem. It might be slightly adhesive, but it's designed not to harden, so instead of the fairly strong bond of hardened beeswax, you have a tacky wad of goo. (I don't know that toilets aren't installed with a silicone caulk in some parts of the world, but in the US they're set down on a ring of soft petroleum wax.)

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Replacing leather & wax for... plastic & glue. Just swapping out the natural for the synthetic. Oh, it may last longer - and done in the name of 'progress'. I shudder at the thought of that word sometimes.

But that's the vast gulf that separates the craftsman from the average repairer.

There's nothing wrong with using plastic ventiles for the higher reeds. Many high end accordions are currently made with plastic ventiles on the higher reeds and plastic-backed leather for the lower reeds. I've found it far preferable to using all leather, as it's impossible to find reed leathers of the quality that were available in the 50s and 60s. I've heard that this is because that particular breed of goat no longer exists, but that may be apocryphal. As for using glue instead of wax, I've only ever seen this done with the most punk rock "repairs", usually on an accordion where the straps had long ago been replaced by bike inner tubes or clothesline. In other words, not a common practice, even by amateurs.

 

[Walker]

That's a reasonable point @Big Squeezy Accordions - we live in a time where methods are changing. I accept it is common for manufactures now to mix leather and plastic valves. That said, I have owned a couple of modern instruments that had genuine leather valves throughout. I remember with Cooperfisa in particular you still have the choice of reeds pinned on leather (or cork) onto alder wood reed blocks. Or you can have reeds just waxed on red spruce - leather valves throughout. Actually, one of the nicest experiences I had just a few years ago was visiting Siwa & Figli factory to see their Super Quattro Artist line in celluloid and 50 year aged walnut. Again, leather valves were the order of the day. I loved the way they used decorative reed blocks in the stecca a billiardo finish. Let me show you...





This is the detail that makes me love the accordion. Look at the reed block finishing, see the different wood species. How about the double riveted reeds? Even now, in 2022, we don't have to settle for the new standard, there are still companies willing to go the extra mile. This company have started actually assembling their own proprietary reeds, with new patented reed head design. I asked them what their inspiration was and they told me, it was to be like the way Dallape were in the 1950s!

Maybe I care about things that don't matter, but to me they do matter. There are still impressive accordion builders doing special things in Italy, I hope they always retain their vision for generations to come.

 

[Gonk]

Interesting musings throughout this discussion. Had to grin at the "most voracious" medal awarded to the reed-tuning rat.

To address Italian vs German recipes, I've noticed exactly the same thing. The German wax tends to be redder, and have a sheen almost like shellac or laquer. The older stuff is hard and flakes off like old resin. This leads me to think a strong possibility is the presence of volatiles, like turpentine. Some wax recipes do include these, and Jim D. of this forum has strongly advised against it -- and I think his reasoning is very sound. The volatiles make the wax perform well at first, but over time, they leave, and the wax becomes brittle and dry, and even cracks as it shrinks in volume.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

That's a reasonable point @Big Squeezy Accordions - we live in a time where methods are changing. I accept it is common for manufactures now to mix leather and plastic valves. That said, I have owned a couple of modern instruments that had genuine leather valves throughout. I remember with Cooperfisa in particular you still have the choice of reeds pinned on leather (or cork) onto alder wood reed blocks. Or you can have reeds just waxed on red spruce - leather valves throughout. Actually, one of the nicest experiences I had just a few years ago was visiting Siwa & Figli factory to see their Super Quattro Artist line in celluloid and 50 year aged walnut. Again, leather valves were the order of the day. I loved the way they used decorative reed blocks in the stecca a billiardo finish. Let me show you...





This is the detail that makes me love the accordion. Look at the reed block finishing, see the different wood species. How about the double riveted reeds? Even now, in 2022, we don't have to settle for the new standard, there are still companies willing to go the extra mile. This company have started actually assembling their own proprietary reeds, with new patented reed head design. I asked them what their inspiration was and they told me, it was to be like the way Dallape were in the 1950s!

Maybe I care about things that don't matter, but to me they do matter. There are still impressive accordion builders doing special things in Italy, I hope they always retain their vision for generations to come.

Gorgeous reed blocks. As a technician, I would emit a sigh of pleasure upon opening this accordion. Still, a bit like having an amazing tattoo on your liver. Ultimately, it's the sound and performance that matters more than the insides looking fantastic.

 

[Ffingers]

"Ultimately, it's the sound and performance that matters more than the insides looking fantastic."

...but, the analogy fails when the materials themselves and their manner of utilisation contribute to the quality of the sound.
Laminated materials are often more consistent in their behaviours and therefore more amenable to precision in use.
In the example which Walker presented, more precise control of the resonances within the reed blocks may have been the primary reason for the choice of woods and their combination, rather than visual aesthetics - a case where form followed function.
Of course, I am merely being hypothetical.

 

[debra]

There's nothing wrong with using plastic ventiles for the higher reeds. Many high end accordions are currently made with plastic ventiles on the higher reeds and plastic-backed leather for the lower reeds. I've found it far preferable to using all leather, as it's impossible to find reed leathers of the quality that were available in the 50s and 60s. I've heard that this is because that particular breed of goat no longer exists, but that may be apocryphal. As for using glue instead of wax, I've only ever seen this done with the most punk rock "repairs", usually on an accordion where the straps had long ago been replaced by bike inner tubes or clothesline. In other words, not a common practice, even by amateurs.

I fully agree with the use of plastic ventiles for the higher reeds. I even did it in my Russian bayan, and for more than just the highest reeds. When the small leather reeds do not result in a stable tuning (meaning a stable frequency from piano to forte), plastic often does better. I still need to replace the high leathers in my Hohner Morino Artiste X S (made by Excelsior) because the highest notes with valves vary in frequency with the sound volume too much. Even Victoria (which always used only leather valves on their better accordions) is now using plastic valves on the high notes.

 

[Walker]

"Ultimately, it's the sound and performance that matters more than the insides looking fantastic."

...but, the analogy fails when the materials themselves and their manner of utilisation contribute to the quality of the sound.
Laminated materials are often more consistent in their behaviours and therefore more amenable to precision in use.
In the example which Walker presented, more precise control of the resonances within the reed blocks may have been the primary reason for the choice of woods and their combination, rather than visual aesthetics - a case where form followed function.
Of course, I am merely being hypothetical.

Yes Ffingers. Everything that goes into an accordion has an affect on what comes out of the instrument...

I had an interesting conversation with an Italian accordion maker once and he told me that the choice of leather valves or plastic will have an impact on the tone that the reeds produces, especially the lower reeds. Apparently some of the tonal richness is lost by changing leather for plastic. Now I am not an accordion technician and I have never had the slightest interest in such an occupation. However, I am dedicated to learning and trying to understand the secrets of what makes the best accordions so wonderful. I have noticed a decline in tonal quality of accordions over the decades, it is painfully obvious. I can also see the pattern of decline even within some individual manufacturers, though I will not name their names. To me, the way to producing great accordions is to study how it was done by the famous accordion builders of yesteryear.

Even if we cannot replicate the actual reeds as before, improvements are being attempted by some manufacturers now. We can also use better quality woods. There is too much average quality softwood used in reed block construction in my view. Now, Giovanni Gola, he used American black walnut in his reed blocks - he waxed and pinned the reeds in place and he used leather valves throughout. The walnut was varnished to within an inch of it's life. The Gola of the early 1960s was like a piece of fine quality furniture on the inside. This inner beauty is revealed through the tone.

If we choose to go in a different direction to the builders of the great Italian, American and German accordion builders, that's fine. Doubtless there are good intentions... However, by choosing different materials to the past we are making a conscious decision to be separated from the great old accordions - at which point there is no point then commenting on how much better the old accordions sounded.

We can make better sounding instruments but it is about having uncompromising ideals. I read above that some of the accordion makers in Louisiana use toilet wax to mound reeds to the reed blocks - yikes. This might be a practical solution, just as plastic valves are. Sometimes the best ways are not always the easiest or most practical.​

That's just my two cents on the matter. But what do I know? I don't repair accordions - I just love them.

 

[Dingo40]

Reminds me of what's happened to strawberries, here in Australia, in recent decades.
Sure, they look like strawberries but feel and taste like Chinese Gooseberries (Kiwi Fruit or Actinidia deliciosa)!
So, one out of three!

 

[Ventura]

i would surmise that the use and acceptance in the small community of Cajun style accordion builders of ring wax was simply a matter of practicality that worked and therefore took hold

Wife once accidentally sent a bucket of dirty soapy water down the hole one morning
forgetting a big rag was in the bottom..
so the first time i removed a commode to clear a drain i WAS struck by how similar
the new, thick soft wax gasket ring was to reedwax because of the scent.. it has a lot of
volatiles in the mix so that is is super pliable as the commode is set back onto the hole
and squishes the new seal into perfect placement.

i feel the Cajun builders were not really part of the global accordion community and came by
their corner of the industry by empiric, local, and environmental pressures.. in their individualism
and isolation coming up with ways and means it is easy for me to imagine how they would have
seen those wax rings as a source of material and a good solution to a problem

when we don't have enough information, we make do.. i freely admit (now, in my dotage)
that the first wax repair i attempted on an old red Serenellini that i played to within an
inch of it's life was done by dripping a red candle onto the wound

it worked.. it lasted another decade

ciao

Ventura

 

[danp76]

Yes Ffingers. Everything that goes into an accordion has an affect on what comes out of the instrument...

I had an interesting conversation with an Italian accordion maker once and he told me that the choice of leather valves or plastic will have an impact on the tone that the reeds produces, especially the lower reeds. Apparently some of the tonal richness is lost by changing leather for plastic. Now I am not an accordion technician and I have never had the slightest interest in such an occupation. However, I am dedicated to learning and trying to understand the secrets of what makes the best accordions so wonderful. I have noticed a decline in tonal quality of accordions over the decades, it is painfully obvious. I can also see the pattern of decline even within some individual manufacturers, though I will not name their names. To me, the way to producing great accordions is to study how it was done by the famous accordion builders of yesteryear.

Even if we cannot replicate the actual reeds as before, improvements are being attempted by some manufacturers now. We can also use better quality woods. There is too much average quality softwood used in reed block construction in my view. Now, Giovanni Gola, he used American black walnut in his reed blocks - he waxed and pinned the reeds in place and he used leather valves throughout. The walnut was varnished to within an inch of it's life. The Gola of the early 1960s was like a piece of fine quality furniture on the inside. This inner beauty is revealed through the tone.

If we choose to go in a different direction to the builders of the great Italian, American and German accordion builders, that's fine. Doubtless there are good intentions... However, by choosing different materials to the past we are making a conscious decision to be separated from the great old accordions - at which point there is no point then commenting on how much better the old accordions sounded.

We can make better sounding instruments but it is about having uncompromising ideals. I read above that some of the accordion makers in Louisiana use toilet wax to mound reeds to the reed blocks - yikes. This might be a practical solution, just as plastic valves are. Sometimes the best ways are not always the easiest or most practical.​

That's just my two cents on the matter. But what do I know? I don't repair accordions - I just love them.

What do you think are the best sounding accordions from the golden era? Obviously this is very subjective, but I would imagine there's a general consensus on this. What are the best sounding new accordions? The best of the new vs the best of the old....how do they stack up?