Not a paradox at all. Good compression means that the bellows gasket tape is still sealing well and the pallets still close well. The valves have zero influence on the compression.
How to store accordions that are played daily
- Thread starter Wheezer
- Start date
Damaging the celluloid can be avoided by placing the accordion on a carpet or towel. Obviously the position of the accordion so it cannot fall over or be accidentally kicked is vitally important. A drop is clearly unwanted. Obviously the risk of the accordion falling over is much lower with CBA than with PA. In ACA (Victoria) I was told that it's not needed at all to avoid storing an accordion on its feet. But except for a brief period about 20 years ago the have always used leather valves with metal booster springs, even for the highest notes with valves. They have started using plastic valves for the highest notes (around 8 of them) that still have a valve, and I assume that's because even with the lightest booster springs the leathers offer too much resistance to the airflow. At Victoria they know how to handle a Victoria, but other accordions are different. So far I have yet to see any other accordion that has metal booster springs on all the leathers, not even a 1960's Gola!Respectfully, changing a few valves every 10 years (probably closer to 20+ years if you play the accordion), is much easier, safer, cheaper and preferable to damaging the celluloid, or dropping the accordion because it is massively unstable. To me, just the scratches alone make it a non-option... but that is my choice, everyone is free to do as they wish.
pitzelberger
Member
This might be a bit off topic, but I have rarely seen an accordion that uses booster springs on the bass side chord voices. Are there any good reasons or is it just cost savings?
The best reason for putting booster springs on all the leathers is to keep the leathers closed, no matter what orientation in which the accordion is used or stored. If the accordion is always either on its feet or in the playing orientation then booster springs are needed for all lower notes and only on higher notes in cassotto and/or Winkelbaß.
Almost all accordion manufacturers are essentially only interested in selling new accordions, and expect the owners to sell the accordions within the first ten years and move on to a new accordion again. And they obviously do not care at all about the people who buy the used accordions. The metal booster springs are only needed to keep owners happy beyond the first ten years...
That makes sense now that I think about it. I guess the same could be said about the wax, that it has no effect on compression?
Indeed, the wax has no effect on compression.
I would not know this unless I owned a Gola and had experienced this... the reason there are no boosters is because the Gola has an exceptional ability to start ALL reeds at the same time, left and right hands together from the lowest note to the highest piccolo sound. One note or 9 note chords.
Highest bellows pressure to the tiniest push or pull.
They also stop at the same time when you keep lowering pressure on the bellows down to near nothing.
Adding booster springs on some valves changes the moment the valve lifts and the sound begins. I have never experienced this on any other accordion ever and find the added dynamic range and responsiveness incredible.
Highest bellows pressure to the tiniest push or pull.
They also stop at the same time when you keep lowering pressure on the bellows down to near nothing.
Adding booster springs on some valves changes the moment the valve lifts and the sound begins. I have never experienced this on any other accordion ever and find the added dynamic range and responsiveness incredible.
Jerry, to what do you credit that ability to start all reeds so well?
My background in Physics and Aeronautics suggests to me that the airflow through and resonance within the reed block cavities might have something to do with this.
And Paul, would you consider this to possibly be a factor?
My background in Physics and Aeronautics suggests to me that the airflow through and resonance within the reed block cavities might have something to do with this.
And Paul, would you consider this to possibly be a factor?
The reeds starting at the same time (and stopping at the same time) is mostly due to very careful voicing of the reeds. It is very time consuming to adjust the opening between the reed and reed plate for each note until it is just right. Anything that is very time consuming to do you can be sure is not done on any modern accordion costing less than 30.000 (US$ or euro).
And even after putting in the time to get this absolutely right it is unlikely to last forever because your physics and aeronautics background will tell you that the airflow is pulling the reed towards the reed plate (as can be clearly observed when a reed is choking) so over the years and decades the voicing changes (the opening becomes smaller) and a reed that never choked before may start choking. Also, the changes in voicing may cause the L, M and H reeds of a note to no longer start (and stop) simultaneously, especially at low pressure.
Whenever I get an accordion in for tuning I check that L, M and H (and M+ and M- when available) all start simultaneously, but I'm sure I am less precise than Gola was in his time. Especially with high piccolo reeds that have been tuned (and their voicing changed) several times before you are lucky if you get the reeds to start quickly at all.
And certainly with modern reeds, you simply cannot achieve perfect simultaneous start with the lowest notes because when you adjust the large and weighted down L reeds to start simultaneously with the H reeds the voicing will be such that the L reeds will easily choke. The reeds need to be of a stronger steel to achieve the simultaneous start with the L reeds. (Currently you can only achieve this on a good Russian bayan and not no any Italian accordion I know of.)
Ventura
Been here for ages!
my opinion: i consider it to be the product of the way these great
empiric thinkers and experimenters worked to perfect their art..
the accordion.. as i have said, and what many including Roland
never understood, the greatest builders of Accordions realized
the limitations and imperfections of materials, methods, designs,
and rather than just build to "best practices" went incrementally
and constantly forward trying to find ways and means to OVERCOME
those weaknesses
todays status quo, the homogenous top tier, and Roland codifying
reed flatulence, valve noise, etc. as critical and included "supernatural"
elements of acoustic instruments that must be perpetuated ad infinitum
are not honoring he legacy of Gola, Scandalli, Pancotti, and other greats
i suspect, to even out the differences between reeds that lay this way
vs: reeds that lay that way vs: reeds that are innies vs: outies vs: reeds that
stand up, means tiny differences were made in something, or many tiny somethings,
and this oneness with "things" was earned/learned through many years many observations
many adjustments, much trial and error of material as well as method and technique
and are for the most part lost to us today, which is why no-one can make a Strad
as good as Stradivarius did..
empiric thinkers and experimenters worked to perfect their art..
the accordion.. as i have said, and what many including Roland
never understood, the greatest builders of Accordions realized
the limitations and imperfections of materials, methods, designs,
and rather than just build to "best practices" went incrementally
and constantly forward trying to find ways and means to OVERCOME
those weaknesses
todays status quo, the homogenous top tier, and Roland codifying
reed flatulence, valve noise, etc. as critical and included "supernatural"
elements of acoustic instruments that must be perpetuated ad infinitum
are not honoring he legacy of Gola, Scandalli, Pancotti, and other greats
i suspect, to even out the differences between reeds that lay this way
vs: reeds that lay that way vs: reeds that are innies vs: outies vs: reeds that
stand up, means tiny differences were made in something, or many tiny somethings,
and this oneness with "things" was earned/learned through many years many observations
many adjustments, much trial and error of material as well as method and technique
and are for the most part lost to us today, which is why no-one can make a Strad
as good as Stradivarius did..
Paul answered perfectly, the man is a walking accordion encyclopedia... lol
My Gola went in for a touch up of a few notes and a general check-up as well as a few cosmetic upgrades (bigger shoulder straps, new big leather wrist strap, replaced very faded 24k gold plated bellows straps and a nice polishing and buffing). When the tuning gets so bad that I notice it, it will be going in for a full tuning and voicing.
I would presume something like this is going to take at least a month and cost me a couple thousand dollars... but that is some unknown time in the future. Right now she sings sweet to me and I look forward to playing it a lot in 2024.
Wheezer; Apples vs. oranges. The valves only act, that is, close the unused reed gaps, when there is intentional (read a key/button pressed) air flow thru the instrument. If the bellows are compressed with all keys/buttons closed, the valves basically just sit there, curled or flat. Compression is a result of good pallet sealing and lack of bellows and/or cabinet leaks. Put another way, good compression is the result of lack of air flow.
Hilobox
Member
Thank you. It’s a slow process but I am once again so thankful that, unlike many people in the world, we have access to good medical care and the resources to pay for it. I was getting depressed though, mostly sitting around reading and doing crossword puzzles.
But at the last appointment my dr gave me permission to operate my skid steer and excavator again since the forearms rest unmoving on padded arm rests and all the control is with the wrists with joysticks like playing a video game. Zero shoulder movement required.
It’s been wonderful to get out and do something useful for a change - I’ve spent hours over the last few days in our little community clearing the deep snow from the county road and and steep hill and spreading fine gravel so we and the neighbors can get to the grocery store and to medical appointments. (Snow is incredibly rare here in TN, typically 1/2” or so and gone in a few hours. This week we got 10” and it’s been here all week! I suspect Hawaii is rarely shut down by snow emergencies!)
BTW, I had a wonderful time when we last spent a week on the islands in ‘89. I was sad to read that Chez Paul on Maui closed in 2009 (after reportedly going downhill).
JKJ
Hilobox
Member
Wow it sounds like you may be giving a new meaning to “frozen shoulder”. We moved here from Utah in 2016, so snow and I have a history. Your neighbors are fortunate to have someone like you to stubbornly helpfully get out and help clear the roads. I’m sure there is an accordion joke in there somewhere, but one is not really needed. And regarding here, we can see any snow that might fall as we have a view of Mauna Kea where earlier the county closed the access road due to a blizzard! If that happens again, I’ll tell Hawaii County that I know a guy in TN that is willing to fly here and clear the snow and provide accordion music as well.Thank you. It’s a slow process but I am once again so thankful that, unlike many people in the world, we have access to good medical care and the resources to pay for it. I was getting depressed though, mostly sitting around reading and doing crossword puzzles.
But at the last appointment my dr gave me permission to operate my skid steer and excavator again since the forearms rest unmoving on padded arm rests and all the control is with the wrists with joysticks like playing a video game. Zero shoulder movement required.
It’s been wonderful to get out and do something useful for a change - I’ve spent hours over the last few days in our little community clearing the deep snow from the county road and and steep hill and spreading fine gravel so we and the neighbors can get to the grocery store and to medical appointments. (Snow is incredibly rare here in TN, typically 1/2” or so and gone in a few hours. This week we got 10” and it’s been here all week! I suspect Hawaii is rarely shut down by snow emergencies!)
BTW, I had a wonderful time when we last spent a week on the islands in ‘89. I was sad to read that Chez Paul on Maui closed in 2009 (after reportedly going downhill).
JKJ
With reference to another post on liscio music, this is why it is so dangerous to watch Bagutti play.After seeing de -bra,s picture of the floppy reed valves I have started storing mine upright.
But saying that ,I'm quite susceptible to visual stimuli and if I watch Lawrence of Arabia I always get thirsty
Last edited:
I'm planning to replace all the leathers on my 1930s Settimio Soprani. Would it be worth retro-fitting booster springs?
Ventura
Been here for ages!
it might help to look back or watch on eBay for accordion
listings with very good Photo's of high end reeds and reedblocks
then you would have a better baseline on your head for what
is typical vs: what is awesome
booster springs on everything and perfect leathers and wax and varnished
smooth polished reedblocks are amazing to see and one can't help
thinking this is the WAY.. and since your re-build is a labor of love as well
as a learning experience, why not ? i would argue that you will not
play this box as much as your smaller Gig accordions, so it being more
resistant to valve sag while stored (because of springs EVERYwhere)
might be enough justification right there..
listings with very good Photo's of high end reeds and reedblocks
then you would have a better baseline on your head for what
is typical vs: what is awesome
booster springs on everything and perfect leathers and wax and varnished
smooth polished reedblocks are amazing to see and one can't help
thinking this is the WAY.. and since your re-build is a labor of love as well
as a learning experience, why not ? i would argue that you will not
play this box as much as your smaller Gig accordions, so it being more
resistant to valve sag while stored (because of springs EVERYwhere)
might be enough justification right there..
