French Accordions

[debra]

...
Just a question out of curiosity, do you know how the French manage to play their 442Hz accordions with bands/ orchestras? Is 442Hz a standard for other instruments as well?

Nowadays many orchestras of different type (strings, philharmonic,, fanfare) have moved to 442Hz to the extent that when they want to give a concert with an accordion solo they are not happy when they have to tune everything down to 440Hz again. Famous players like Ksenija Sidorova, or more locally here Toeac (a duo) all play Pigini with its default tuning of 442Hz but there are some (like Vincent van Amsterdam) who play at 440Hz (Vincent on Bugari). I do not feel a lot of sympathy for the orchestra's complaints. We have an international official ISO standard and that is 440Hz. If anyone wants to deviate from that, tough luck when there are problems playing with people who do stick to the standard!

 

[debra]

...
Although France uses 442 Hz that doesn't necessarily mean any accordion you try out in a French store will automatically be 442 Hz. Chances are if it is a reasonably modern or new instrument then it will be. The ones you are most likely to come across during your trip are 440 Hz in Italy, 441 Hz in west Switzerland, and 442 Hz in France. ...

The (Italian) Cruccianelli accordions we bought in the seventies were already 442. A modern Italian accordion can be 440 or 442 mostly depending on the brand. You should never ever buy an accordion without asking and checking what the tuning is, because although there may be some "general default scheme" (as stated in the quote) standards are there to be deviated from...

 

[donn]

I'm reliably informed that instruments with pitch up to 446 Hz are not uncommon. Before buying ask the seller what "le diapason" is of the accordion. If they can't or won't tell you, then I'm sure you'll know what to do.

I'd suggest that one do the same in either case, if it matters and if the accordion in question is available to be played - check.  You can install adequate tuner on an ordinary cellular phone, one of probably dozens of tuner "apps".  My Cavagnolo checks in at around A=444 this morning (temperature around 65°F, ca. 18°C.)  My prior experience with accordions was when I played along with one, on tuba;  the accordion was an old economy class Enrico Roselli, very common around here, and I found it noticeably sharp, so I have the impression this isn't only the French, or only for the European market.  Orchestras in the US may also use A=442, e.g. New York Philharmonic according to wikipedia.

As they say in the orchestra, "better sharp, than out of tune!"

 

[maugein96]

Hi Donn,

Looking at adverts in French stores (yes they do exist!) some of the retailers actually state the diapason of the instrument in the listing. Today I saw some fairly modern boxes listed from between 440 Hz to 446 Hz. The "Big Two" French makers tell us we'll get 442 Hz with "accordage americain" on any boxes having two banks of M reeds, unless we specifically ask for something else. The listings tend to indicate that quite a few people want "something else".

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

With my musical instrument maker's hat on I'll state that I object to all this mucking about with the pitch standard... what on earth does a couple of hertz make to the overall sound of an orchestra after all?

Some instruments are difficult to adjust for overal pitch. The pre war C melody sax I used to annoy people with was well in tune at 452hz but was a nightmare to shift down that half semitone... the scaling never was correct.

Here in France , where the Cabrette is most often accompanied by the Chromatic Accordeon and it is no easy job to shift the pitch up and down to suit whichever accordeonist you are with today. We have has sessions in our kitchen, where several Cabrettes were in 440hz. and several accordeons were in anything between 438 and 442hz.... plenty of musette wetness covered several basses.

 

[lispinini]

...
Just a question out of curiosity, do you know how the French manage to play their 442Hz accordions with bands/ orchestras? Is 442Hz a standard for other instruments as well?

Nowadays many orchestras of different type (strings, philharmonic,, fanfare) have moved to 442Hz to the extent that when they want to give a concert with an accordion solo they are not happy when they have to tune everything down to 440Hz again. Famous players like Ksenija Sidorova, or more locally here Toeac (a duo) all play Pigini with its default tuning of 442Hz but there are some (like Vincent van Amsterdam) who play at 440Hz (Vincent on Bugari). I do not feel a lot of sympathy for the orchestra's complaints. We have an international official ISO standard and that is 440Hz. If anyone wants to deviate from that, tough luck when there are problems playing with people who do stick to the standard!

Great to know, Paul, and I hope there wasn't a harp in the orchestra.

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

Does your kitchen come with any local government warnings? See JJ has a nice white Cavagnolo at 446 Hz. Great for the lone players among us, and throw the backing tracks away!

I imagine those cabrettes would take a bit of getting used to. Think I'll come over to improve my fitness. Just pull one of those cabrette things out of its case and you'll see the fastest mile ever recorded by a 65 year old!

I've come to the conclusion that my ears must be over sensitive as I'm getting older. I find myself repeatedly playing single reed registers at home, and sometimes wishing there was a volume control. Herve Capel must have to work that little Mini Sonora very hard to have much chance at all. I suppose if you know what you're listening for it all fits in nicely. I have the same problem over here with Scottish Country Dance bands. Those bands typically have two of the biggest accordions in the world, these days both played at full blast into a sound system, just in case there's a strong wind blowing and the folk in Shetland cannot hear them playing!

Years of listening to studio recorded tracks of music not normally encountered in the UK has probably caused me to forget what live music sounds like.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Local government health warning John ?

We have stretched to double glazing, though sometimes it would be good to open a couple of windows to let the noise out as the pressure on the ear drums can become excessive. The Cabrette can produce close to the same volume as the Highland Pipes... just usually somewhat lower in pitch.. and four or five of them, for some reason I cannot figure out, do not affect my ears any more than one... as in deaf is deaf . Hence playing the accordeon 'blind' is called for. The three voice musette with reeds on bronze plates backed up with the basson 'à peigne arrière' and a five reed bass ( an instrument designed before amplification came into general use) is my solution to the problem....

As can be seen from various youtube videos Hervé Capel is using gravity as much as he can to help produce enough power from his Mini Sonora in accoustic combat with the Cabrette.

One of the other dealers in my general region has a Cavagnolo Compact 10 that I fancied until he told me it was 445hz! It should be sooooo simple to find just THE right CBA in France... but the mine fields are still there.

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

Last year I managed to get hold of a swing tuned Cavagnolo Vedette 5, and it has been well worth the 30 year wait. Once you get used to the rather subtle nature of its tone it really is a superb instrument, but I doubt if it would be worth taking out of the case if there was a cabrette involved.

The Vedette is 441 Hz, as my tuner prefers to work to that for all French boxes. I think it is because he is in possession of tuning charts for that diapason, but I'm not sure. Obviously in Scotland his main work is on 440 Hz monster boxes with uber musette, although he has done a few French accordions recently. I bought the box from him and if something breaks he just makes a replacement part if he cannot source one. A great guy to know, when you're so far away from Cavagnolo land. He did some work on a Cavagnolo Bal Musette I used to own, and discovered the entire 3rd row of the 5 row box was a couple of mm out of alignment. Now fixed, but I don't want it back. Probably the worst Friday afternoon Cavagnolo ever (mid 80s job), and they punted it across here to get rid of it. The mug who typed this bought it!

Compact 10 would do me, but I reckon my last divorce cost me the price of a shelf full of Cavagnolos!

 

[lispinini]

I found a Cava with the sound I like from one of the French sellers. It was a free bass convertor accordion but it was converted to standard bass only. It still has the chin switches. The construction and timbre are very similar to the vedette 10- 4 voices, double cassotto (Bassoon, piccolo) and 2 flutes. It is swing tuned and 440Hz. The only thing which stopped me from buying was that the seller was asking 4000EUR for a 1990 instrument. I wonder if someone is going to pay that much for such an old instrument.

 

[maugein96]

Ive just been speaking with member Geoff de Limousin, who lives in France, about the price of French accordions, and most of them tend to be overpriced, considering the market is awash with them at the moment. There is a dearth of new players and a glut of idle instruments. Some of the older less desirable models end up being modified, usually because something in the instrument is broken or needs replaced.

I think I would steer well clear of such a modified instrument, especially at that price. The work of the repairer may be first class, but why would he want to carry out such a modification?

See if you can find a 5 row version of a Cavagnolo Vedette 10 at about the same price, but check that it has been either reconditioned or been through the retailers workshop. If theres no workshop, just move on unless youre satisfied the box is A1,  Its not so much about the age of the accordion, as the condition it is in, especially internally.

The one in the link may even be older than 1990, but a Vedette 10 in LMMH is the French accordion and its a buyers market at the moment. They are pretty heavy, but so is the Vedette 5 in LMM which I have. Cavagnolo accordions can be dated by the serial numbers stamped on the reedblocks, and any French retailer should be able to to tell you the age of the instrument to within a year or so by referring to those. Reed blocks can be replaced of course, but theyre sometimes the only clue there is.

https://www.pianoabretelles.fr/produit/accordeon-chromatique-cavagnolo-modele-vedette-10/

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

I found a Cava with the sound I like from one of the French sellers. It was a free bass convertor accordion but it was converted to standard bass only. It still has the chin switches. The construction and timbre are very similar to the vedette 10- 4 voices, double cassotto (Bassoon, piccolo) and 2 flutes. It is swing tuned and 440Hz. The only thing which stopped me from buying was that the seller was asking 4000EUR for a 1990 instrument. I wonder if someone is going to pay that much for such an old instrument.

Hmmm , yes quite a lot of money  but if all work has been done  then perhaps  it is OK.

I've been looking at  a Peimaria  Super Regent LMMH,  fully reconditioned  by the factory  and in 440hz.  and half the price  of  this Cava.  From  a private  seller  and only four rows  and  it is white....  I would have already  made the  trip to view it IF it had the fifth row.
Several  similar  Peirmaria's  on  'leboncoin'  and  Crucianelli  Super King's  are  far less money.

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

Forgot about Crucianelli Super Kings. Brilliant sounding boxes even if they probably wouldn't win any beauty competitions.

Piermaria Super Regents also excellent, although I think the OP is kind of set on a Cava.

I find my Maugein Mini Sonora is a bit on the "bright" side, even with 2Hz (8 cent) accordage. However, I've never been able to try out many French accordions of any make.

That Cavagnolo Virtuose 12 in the other thread was going for 950 Euros.

 

[lispinini]

Geoff,

Forgot about Crucianelli Super Kings. Brilliant sounding boxes even if they probably wouldnt win any beauty competitions.

Piermaria Super Regents also excellent, although I think the OP is kind of set on a Cava.

I find my Maugein Mini Sonora is a bit on the bright side, even with 2Hz (8 cent) accordage. However, Ive never been able to try out many French accordions of any make.  

That Cavagnolo Virtuose 12 in the other thread was going for 950 Euros.

Talking about the Cava Vertuose on mon-accordeon, they have a beautiful vedette 10, but it is hard to convince myself to spend 4900 euros on an old instrument. :?   https://www.mon-accordeon.com/occasion/s0495-cavagnolo-vedette-10

 

[maugein96]

Talking about the Cava Vertuose on mon-accordeon, they have a beautiful vedette 10, but it is hard to convince myself to spend 4900 euros on an old instrument. :?   https://www.mon-accordeon.com/occasion/s0495-cavagnolo-vedette-10

Hello again,

There are currently 3 or 4 different versions of the Vedette 10, and that one is configured LLMM (it has two banks of bassoon reeds). From the serial number of the box I can approximate it to 1992, although I could be a year or two out. The current production model of that accordion is called the Vedette 10 Mezzo, although I dont know what the model for sale would have been called in its day. Mezzos currently have a RRP of 12000 Euros, so theyre selling it for less than half the price of a new one.  

Ive had a quick surf on the web, found another one at the same price, and it looks older than the one Georges Pellegrini (mon accordeon) is selling. What can I say? Firstly, only people in the French accordion business really know about French accordions, and the rest of us can only guess and form opinions based on what weve read. 

Cavagnolos have their fans, and unfortunately their attributes are not widely appreciated outside of France. They are essentially French built instruments aimed at French players. Their trademark americain tuning has been described on here by a member who doesnt like them as sounding like a wasp buzzing in a glass jar. Its a bit like three voice musette. You either like it or you dont. Swing tuned ones have a more subtle sound to them, although again its all down to personal preference. 

Ive no experience at all of double bassoon instruments, and youd really need to hear it for yourself to decide whether you like the sound. It has been pointed out on the forum that maintaining both banks of bassoon reeds in tune with each other is essential on such instruments. I have an Italian Marinucci that is LMM with the MM reeds tuned in unison and if a few of the reeds go out of tune it certainly is quite noticeable. Obviously any offending reeds can be re-tuned as required, and with Cavagnolos the reeds are pinned and not waxed so it is easier to do.  

Youre talking about one of the most prestigious accordions in France, and 4900 Euros is probably the price youll need to pay if you want one in such pristine condition as the photos show it to be in. You could possibly get a rougher one for 3000 Euros, but that one is fresh out of a very well respected dealers workshop. I know its a tough call. A 27 year old accordion of that quality still probably has 50 years left in it providing it is well maintained. Spare parts will be an issue for you with any make of accordion, living where you do.  

I could go on (as youll know by now), but if you want a newer model than that then the price will go up. The serial numbers of Cava accordions less than 10 years old start around 48500, and a freshly serviced and tuned Vedette 10 less than 10 years old will be taking you somewhere approaching 8000 Euros. You dont necessarily need a Vedette 10, of course, and even a little 2 voice Cavagnolo Junior with swing tuning wont sound a lot different from its bigger brothers with the same tuning. However, a new Junior costs 3800 Euros. As always a private sale would be your cheapest option, but if you dont live in France thats not really feasible. 

 

[HiTechBiniou]

Let me start with  your question 4:   If you buy a new accordion you can stipulate  the  diapason  at time of ordering.  Last week I asked a professional accordion dealer  what  was the pitch  of a secondhand Cavagnolo hed advertised... the answer was 445hz.!   I showed my surprise at this and was told it was not unusual  for Cavagnolo.  I have found  that modern accordions in France can be  anything  between  440hz  and 446hz.  So, if the pitch is important  you must ask.  I try to  buy only 440hz. accordions  because of the instruments  of others I play with  but  often we are joined by  someone with a 442hz. accordion  and  most people do not notice... a small Jazz combo  might  though.  

The 3/3  basses  should be easier for  people with small hands  but  the French CBAs  tend to be fatter  boxes  than those made  on   piano accordion style cases.

Bellows straps  can be fitted to any accordion.

Thanks Geoff. But 445hz? I wonder what kind of music they played.

In Europe, the standard tuning is 442 and even 443.  I was in Vienna for a piano tuning training and they gave me a 443Hz tuning fork!  I am perfect/relative pitch so it was very difficult for my 440 ears to tune to 443.
Accordion makers in France often tune their box to 445Hz so you definitely need to ask them to tune your box to 440Hz.  Non negociable.  Dont get any accordion not tuned to 440 or you wont be able to play with anybody.

---

Talking about the Cava Vertuose on mon-accordeon, they have a beautiful vedette 10, but it is hard to convince myself to spend 4900 euros on an old instrument. :?   https://www.mon-accordeon.com/occasion/s0495-cavagnolo-vedette-10

Hello again,

There are currently 3 or 4 different versions of the Vedette 10, and that one is configured LLMM (it has two banks of bassoon reeds). From the serial number of the box I can approximate it to 1992, although I could be a year or two out. The current production model of that accordion is called the Vedette 10 Mezzo, although I dont know what the model for sale would have been called in its day. Mezzos currently have a RRP of 12000 Euros, so theyre selling it for less than half the price of a new one.  

Ive had a quick surf on the web, found another one at the same price, and it looks older than the one Georges Pellegrini (mon accordeon) is selling. What can I say? Firstly, only people in the French accordion business really know about French accordions, and the rest of us can only guess and form opinions based on what weve read. 

Cavagnolos have their fans, and unfortunately their attributes are not widely appreciated outside of France. They are essentially French built instruments aimed at French players. Their trademark americain tuning has been described on here by a member who doesnt like them as sounding like a wasp buzzing in a glass jar. Its a bit like three voice musette. You either like it or you dont. Swing tuned ones have a more subtle sound to them, although again its all down to personal preference. 

Ive no experience at all of double bassoon instruments, and youd really need to hear it for yourself to decide whether you like the sound. It has been pointed out on the forum that maintaining both banks of bassoon reeds in tune with each other is essential on such instruments. I have an Italian Marinucci that is LMM with the MM reeds tuned in unison and if a few of the reeds go out of tune it certainly is quite noticeable. Obviously any offending reeds can be re-tuned as required, and with Cavagnolos the reeds are pinned and not waxed so it is easier to do.  

Youre talking about one of the most prestigious accordions in France, and 4900 Euros is probably the price youll need to pay if you want one in such pristine condition as the photos show it to be in. You could possibly get a rougher one for 3000 Euros, but that one is fresh out of a very well respected dealers workshop. I know its a tough call. A 27 year old accordion of that quality still probably has 50 years left in it providing it is well maintained. Spare parts will be an issue for you with any make of accordion, living where you do.  

I could go on (as youll know by now), but if you want a newer model than that then the price will go up. The serial numbers of Cava accordions less than 10 years old start around 48500, and a freshly serviced and tuned Vedette 10 less than 10 years old will be taking you somewhere approaching 8000 Euros. You dont necessarily need a Vedette 10, of course, and even a little 2 voice Cavagnolo Junior with swing tuning wont sound a lot different from its bigger brothers with the same tuning. However, a new Junior costs 3800 Euros. As always a private sale would be your cheapest option, but if you dont live in France thats not really feasible. 

The Cavagnolo Vedette 10 Mezzo IS the LEGEND!  But I didnt follow all this thread so if your Vedette 100 is BBMM then, it is not a Mezzo.  The Mezzo is MM and piccolo and bassoun in cassotto.

80% of all the French musette CDs are made with this accordion.

IMO it is the best accordion in the world!

I had one myself and it really rocks!

Georges Pelligrini is one of the most knowledgeable accordion specialist in the world and his work is worth gold.
His 4900€ accordion is probably better than when it was new.  He improve the instrument, not just tune/repair it.

If you get this accordion, you will have a worlds patrimony in your hands.  Nothing less.

The American tuning is very good and gives you the real French modern musette sound as opposed to the old very out of tuned MMM musette.  Swing and American tuning refers to MM, not MMM.

The double bassouns in cassotto are usually tuned off just like the MM.  They are slightly off just to give a little swing to the sound.

Ive tried a Hohner Fun accordion at 2006s Frankfurt Musikmesse that had a double bassoun in cassotto and boy did I have fun playing this box!

Here is a BIG tip:  Try this fellow from Portugal, he have a lot of Cavagnolo for sale and at very cheap prices but they are not serviced like the ones Pelligrini sells.  

http://musicalianorte.pt/index.php/acordeoes/acordeoes-120-baixos/

 

[maugein96]

Hi Mario,

Just realised you had become a member and welcome! Some of us will have heard of you and your great playing speaks for itself. There aren't all that many pro players on here and your input is invaluable. 

The original poster lives in Hong Kong, and was looking for advice on buying an accordion suitable for playing in a French style jazz combo. He was converting from a piano keyboard to chromatic, and wanted a French sound.

He is probably currently in Europe on vacation where he had plans to try out some different accordions in France and Italy, but I don't believe Portugal is in his itinerary. He saw the advert for the Vedette 10 on George Pellegrini's website, but wasn't keen to buy an "old" accordion. 

I live in Scotland, but have had an interest in French accordions for many years. I used to subscribe to the French accordion magazine, "Accordeon & Accordeonistes", when it was current, and learned a lot of stuff from there, although my French isn't very good (had to use a dictionary most of the time!). As you say Georges Pellegrini is a legendary repairer and if he gets any accordion of any make he gives it the "once over". If something isn't quite right Georges will attend to it, and carry out any modifications and/or repairs he deems necessary before he puts the accordion up for sale. Obviously, with the reputation he has he isn't going to be cheap, and I'm glad you have pointed that out. 4900 Euros for that particular Vedette 10 in that condition is an absolute bargain, and I'd gladly give my two French accordions (Cava Vedette 5 and Maugein Mini Sonora) to Georges in exchange for that instrument, and be prepared to hand him some cash as well. 

Unfortunately I'm only an amateur player, so I won't be doing that, but if I lived in France I reckon I'd already have done so.

Many thanks also for drawing attention to the fact that the vast majority of modern French accordions don't sound like those played by Verchuren. The "out of tune" musette pur accordions still have a following, particularly with folk players and those who wish to recreate the ambience of the old bals musette, but these days are not the most popular choice. I have a hell of a job trying to explain that away to some members, especially as I've never lived in France or speak the language. The fact you have pointed out that 80% of current acoustic French recordings are made using Vedette 10 accordions with americain tuning should now convey to any members with doubts that times have moved on. There is quite a tendency to use Cavagnolo "digit" accordions these days for recordings, although your knowledge of that will be better than mine. It can often be difficult to tell when you're listening to a Cava Digit, as they tend to sound identical to the acoustic models, if they are set up properly. I dare say there is a way to identify them, but I wouldn't know how.  

Very few people are aware that French accordions are also available in considerable numbers in Portugal, as your link to the Portuguese retailers shows. Again, it is difficult to assure people that those accordions are precisely the same instruments that are available in France. Sometimes there may be a slight difference in the tuning, but that can usually be overcome. Professional Portuguese players like Ilda Maria used a Cavagnolo Vedette 10, as did many others, but most Portuguese players are unknown outside of their home country. The cheaper labour costs and lower profile of the accordion in Portugal ensures that prices there are very reasonable. However, trying to convince people that they'll get a cheaper genuine French accordion in Portugal isn't easy. They want to buy in French France, which is fair enough, but the facility exists to buy elsewhere.

Oddly enough Cavagnolos are also frequently encountered in Switzerland where their retail prices don't seem to be as high as they are in France, but again people are wary of sourcing French accordions outside of France. 

I could go on, but you've covered precisely what a Cavagnolo Vedette 10 is and what it does. I was unaware that in LLMM models the bassoon reeds were slightly off tuned from each other. I had mentioned these instruments on here before but was advised that the bassoon reeds were tuned in unison, and could be problematic if they didn't remain in precise tune with each other. I believed that was the case, so gave the original poster wrong information about that. Thanks for explaining that away, as no doubt there will be queries about LL tuning in future posts. They aren't very common here in the UK, and I've never seen an instrument with double bassoon reeds here.

Thanks again for the "inside" knowledge, and hopefully anybody reading your post will now have a better idea of what French accordions are all about. 

Regards,

John W

 

[donn]

Is that source OK to visit in person, has anyone done that? Or online only? It's a nice looking town out in the Portuguese countryside, complete with old crumbling castle - I was thinking about it at one time, before I found a suitable accordion closer to home.

There are more than one such source in Portugal, though this one may have the biggest inventory. It's possibly a little more informative to search for "acordeão" on olx.pt, where you will get a little more than just pictures, or for that matter maybe different pictures, but at best the information will be disturbingly vague. The Portuguese accordion world is apparently so regular that they can simply refer to an accordion as "four voice" (or literally "fourth voice", "4ª voz"), and enough has been said. Maybe with a qualifier like "musette" or "complete", don't know if those have meanings there that would clarify which 4 voices one would expect. It's a fair guess that 4 voice will be LMMH, but 3? Always LMH, or sometimes LMM?

 

[maugein96]

Is that source OK to visit in person, has anyone done that?  Or online only?  It's a nice looking town out in the Portuguese countryside, complete with old crumbling castle - I was thinking about it at one time, before I found a suitable accordion closer to home.

Hi Donn,
I think you'd maybe need to phone first, but Mario doesn't say.
With regard to Portuguese voices and tuning I've no experience of those at all, although listening to YT clips when they were using older Italian boxes like Ranco got me thinking that they were probably LMMM, as the musette register got an airing from time to time in those days. 
Modern players don't seem to use musette much at all, and even Ilda Maria, one of the older set, went onto a Cavagnolo Vedette 10, maybe 30 years ago. You could hear it cutting through in her recordings. The tone was pure French, even if her music wasn't. 
You'll know already that the most common reed combination in France is LMM, and only a handful of players go for the bigger 4 voice models. LMH is an unusual combination in France, although Georges Pellegrini has altered the odd LMM to LMH, which he says improves their appeal to jazz and classical players who don't want a big accordion. I'm talking about boxes with tone chambers in them, and he's also prone to insert foam into the cassotto chamber to change the tone slightly. I don't think there are many tricks he doesn't know. 
Here in Scotland, it is so clear cut that you just need to ask for "an accordion", and it's a 4 voice LMMM instrument with musette tuning. In order of popularity, it might be a PA, B,C,C# British Chromatic, or less likely a CBA, but that's it! Some players these days use smaller instruments, and I couldn't honestly say whether that is a recent trend.
LMMH boxes are relatively rare on the popular music front in Europe, but Portugal may well be an exception to that, I just don't know. In my limited experience of listening to Portuguese players on YT, they either have slightly different tuning to the equivalent French boxes, or just habitually make most use of the master LMM and bandoneon LM couplers, without selecting much else at all. I'm excellent at being wrong in such matters and stand to be corrected if I'm way off the mark with that one. The very few Spanish players we hear tend to be big on that sound as well, as it suits Spanish type music. That said, I've often heard them belting out Spanish classics using three voice musette, and just when you think you have a particular genre sussed, somebody proves you wrong.