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FR8x & possibly FR4x controlled by Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller

torch

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<VIMEO id=115529072 url=></VIMEO>

I have seen this video before, and Im trying to do the same with my 4x. No need to purchase the expensive Roland FC300, as I already have the FCB 1010 and the MIDI Event Processor Plus shown in the video. Uwe also uses a wireless midi system so that his 8x is not tied down to the foot controller or rather the Midi Even Processor Plus. Its really neat to see Uwe doing pitch change with a foot switch on the FCB1010. Probably thats all I am interested in; a small foot switch that sends midi. The it will be processed by the MIDI Event Processor before it is connected to the 4x. With the right sysex messages, the FR4x will think a Roland FC300 is connected.
 

JerryPH

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Very interesting! This might be a future project for me, but right now, I just have so much on the plate that I can barely find time to complete the projects I have now. Once you do have it all up and running, why not make a little video explaining all that you did? ;)
 
K

Keymn

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Lots of hardware and a good understanding how the accordion transmits and receives. Unfortunately, I need the midi out for my arranger on my 4x. Midijet wireless has two way traffic, but you can only select midi out or midi in on the 4x.
8x has 2 midi ports, in/out, correct?
Thanks for sharing...
 
K

Keymn

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JerryPH post_id=47765 time=1498589665 user_id=1475 said:
Correct, the 8x has both a MIDI in and out.

You can then plug in Quicco MI.1 in the midi in/out. Give you traffic both ways. Unlike the Yamaha ud-bt01, you need the power 5 volts.
I need a break from all this Bluetooth midi stuff. Makes my head swim :hb
 
K

Keymn

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Keymn post_id=47773 time=1498599676 user_id=2286 said:
JerryPH post_id=47765 time=1498589665 user_id=1475 said:
Correct, the 8x has both a MIDI in and out.

You can then plug in Quicco MI.1 in the midi in/out Accordion and another mi.1 in the midi in/out on the pedal. There is app called midi bridge on iPad where you can see these two mi.1s and connect them on the app. This is Another way to do wireless.
Unlike the Yamaha ud-bt01, you need the power 5 volts.
I need a break from all this Bluetooth midi stuff. Makes my head swim :hb
 

torch

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Both the 8x and the 4x MIDI Outputs will power the mi.1 and probably Yamaha Md-BT01 but not the FR3x. A technician explained to me that there is another wire in the V accordion that needs to be connected to the MIDI output.
 
K

Keymn

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It is getting complicated with adding all these modules, connections, etc. I would like to see wireless midi, Bluetooth and audio built in our v accordions. Maybe I am asking too much? :geek:
 
V

VirtualAccordionist

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It is very impressive to see that there are people like Ewe who are able, either on their own or with the help of their friend Greg, to get this working. I was especially impressed by the fact that Ewe was able to get the FCB1010 to invoke the "UPG Up" operation on the V-Accordion. That, or its equivalent on any other instrument I have played (Roland BK-9 keyboard, Roland BK-7m module), is what I consider to be the most important pedal operation of all. It's the king of the kings. It's what allows me to step through a "Sequential Multi Part Orchestration", a technique that I use in all of my best performances. Notice I said "best" not "good". Alas, I am a mediocre musician. But never mind that.

I am also impressed by messages posted to this thread by people who seem able to accomplish the same as Ewe. Although I do not understand your messages (sorry, they are too technical), you seem to know what you are talking about. All I can say is, "Good for you. You are much better than me."

Of course, over the years I have seen a few people accomplish similar things using the Behringer FCB1010. Impressed by such demonstrations, several years ago I purchased the FCB1010. Unfortunately, either because of my limited intelligence, or because I do not have a friend like Greg, I was unable to get it to work. I remember how the key to programming the FCB1010 was a flow chart diagram that came with the documentation. Unfortunately the diagram was a convoluted mess of boxes and lines the exact purpose of which I could never figure out. And it is not because I did not try. Believe me I did. Over a six month period I put many hours into the project. But I was completely lost. The bottom line is, I was then, and I still am now, completely lost in the subject of how exactly MIDI is used to control various functions and features on remote devices. I do not understand how the messages are constructed. I do not understand how to program them. I do not understand how to use them. I purchased 5 textbooks on MIDI and spent many hours reading and studying, but with little avail. Those books only talk about how MIDI is used to specify music, not how to control remote devices.

Ironically, I notice in Ewe's video that he used some kind of "Magic Box" called an "Event Processor". Well, well. Isn't that just ducky. What the heck is that thing? What's its exact purpose? Is the fact that I did not have such a magic box the reason why I failed? I don't know what that box costs, but it does increase the cost of the MIDI setup. It is also interesting how Ewe admits that he programmed that box with the help of his friend Greg. Oh, if only there was a Greg in my life.

It is interesting how in my experience every person I have met who seems to have succeeded in setting up a MIDI system from the ground up has said, "I don't actually understand it myself, I have this friend who helped me do it." I guess I just don't have enough friends. Hmmmm...

And I should mention that although I don't consider myself to be in the upper range of human intelligence, I did manage to complete an engineering degree and work many years in various positions in the electronics industry, the last of which was as a Windows systems programmer using C++ and the Windows API. But evidently that experience does not seem to be sufficient background for me to understand MIDI. Who knows? Perhaps that background was detrimental to understanding MIDI? Could be...

Because of my inability to comprehend MIDI, when it comes to pedal units, I have only succeeded with proprietary pedal units, like the Roland FC-7 for the BK-9 keyboard and BK-7m module. It's operation is specified by some menu of the instrument. By relying on some "Menu Feature" of an instrument, I am able to pick a standard feature or operation that I want a particular pedal to do without myself performing any programming. With the FC-300, if I want Pedal #5 to invoke the "UPG Up" operation, I simply go to the appropriate menu on my FR-4x, pick an item conveniently called "UPG Up" (what a novel idea - speaking English - who would have guessed that would work?), and then save my selection on the 4x. No programming of the pedal unit, no magic boxes, no convoluted incomprehensible programming diagrams, no obscure MIDI codes, no need for a friend called Greg, no pulling my hair out, no frustration.

So, to those ordinary folk like me who are reading this thread, beware that accomplishing the necessary programming to get the Behringer FCB1010 to do the "UPG Up" operation on your FR-4x, as I can so easily do on my 4x using the Roland FC-300 pedal unit, may require considerable effort and technical skill on your part, skill that obviously I do not possess. If you possess it, great. Go ahead. But if you don't, you may need a friend called Greg. But I consider it totally beyond my skill set. Also, since the FR-4x does eliminate the need for me to program my FC-300, I have not, nor am I interested in, figuring out how to program it myself from the ground up. Why should I? I've already got it working using an easy to understand menu. Isn't that how musical instruments should be designed to be used in the first place? And even if I did understand the technology, what about my time? Sure I'd save considerable money with the FBC1010, but even if I did understand what to do, what about my time spent getting it to work? With the FC-300, rather than spending hours trying to figure out obscure MIDI codes, I can spend more time playing my instrument. I need more practice time.

Actually, from a quality point of view I found the physical construction of the Behringer FCB1010 to be impressive. It is very solidly built for the rigors of stage performances. I also liked that it has more pedals than the Roland FC-300. On the surface the Behringer seems very much worth the low price. Too bad I couldn't figure out how to use it. Unfortunately, no matter how well built a product is, no matter how attractive the price, it's of no value if I can't figure out how to use it. I got rid of my FCB1010 vowing to never again buy another MIDI pedal unit. It was only when I saw in the FR-4x owner's manual how I could define my pedals by using a menu on the instrument itself rather than by programming the pedal unit that I worked up the courage to buy the Roland FC-300. I agree that it is more expensive, but because for the first time I can actually connect a pedal unit to my V-Accordion, something that I have wanted to do for years but could never figure out how, Roland could charge $1,000. I would still buy it in a flash. To me, it quadruples the value of my instrument.

Maybe after I die and go to heaven I'll meet up with Ewe's friend Greg, and he can explain the whole thing to me. But maybe I still won't understand it.

I envy you guys who seem to have the skill to program and get working the FCB1010. But lucky for me, the Roland FC-300 exists and lucky for me it has been properly integrated into the operating system of my FR-4x such that I can easily use it. To me it's the best $450 that I have spent. To those who would like to have pedal control of a V-Accordion and are attracted by the lower price of the Behringer FCB1010, BEWARE. It's not easy to get working.

Leon
 
K

Keymn

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VirtualAccordionist post_id=47811 time=1498658892 user_id=2348 said:
It is very impressive to see that there are people like Ewe who are able, either on their own or with the help of their friend Greg, to get this working. I was especially impressed by the fact that Ewe was able to get the FCB1010 to invoke the UPG Up operation on the V-Accordion. That, or its equivalent on any other instrument I have played (Roland BK-9 keyboard, Roland BK-7m module), is what I consider to be the most important pedal operation of all. Its the king of the kings. Its what allows me to step through a Sequential Multi Part Orchestration, a technique that I use in all of my best performances. Notice I said best not good. Alas, I am a mediocre musician. But never mind that.

I am also impressed by messages posted to this thread by people who seem able to accomplish the same as Ewe. Although I do not understand your messages (sorry, they are too technical), you seem to know what you are talking about. All I can say is, Good for you. You are much better than me.

Of course, over the years I have seen a few people accomplish similar things using the Behringer FCB1010. Impressed by such demonstrations, several years ago I purchased the FCB1010. Unfortunately, either because of my limited intelligence, or because I do not have a friend like Greg, I was unable to get it to work. I remember how the key to programming the FCB1010 was a flow chart diagram that came with the documentation. Unfortunately the diagram was a convoluted mess of boxes and lines the exact purpose of which I could never figure out. And it is not because I did not try. Believe me I did. Over a six month period I put many hours into the project. But I was completely lost. The bottom line is, I was then, and I still am now, completely lost in the subject of how exactly MIDI is used to control various functions and features on remote devices. I do not understand how the messages are constructed. I do not understand how to program them. I do not understand how to use them. I purchased 5 textbooks on MIDI and spent many hours reading and studying, but with little avail. Those books only talk about how MIDI is used to specify music, not how to control remote devices.

Ironically, I notice in Ewes video that he used some kind of Magic Box called an Event Processor. Well, well. Isnt that just ducky. What the heck is that thing? Whats its exact purpose? Is the fact that I did not have such a magic box the reason why I failed? I dont know what that box costs, but it does increase the cost of the MIDI setup. It is also interesting how Ewe admits that he programmed that box with the help of his friend Greg. Oh, if only there was a Greg in my life.

It is interesting how in my experience every person I have met who seems to have succeeded in setting up a MIDI system from the ground up has said, I dont actually understand it myself, I have this friend who helped me do it. I guess I just dont have enough friends. Hmmmm...

And I should mention that although I dont consider myself to be in the upper range of human intelligence, I did manage to complete an engineering degree and work many years in various positions in the electronics industry, the last of which was as a Windows systems programmer using C++ and the Windows API. But evidently that experience does not seem to be sufficient background for me to understand MIDI. Who knows? Perhaps that background was detrimental to understanding MIDI? Could be...

Because of my inability to comprehend MIDI, when it comes to pedal units, I have only succeeded with proprietary pedal units, like the Roland FC-7 for the BK-9 keyboard and BK-7m module. Its operation is specified by some menu of the instrument. By relying on some Menu Feature of an instrument, I am able to pick a standard feature or operation that I want a particular pedal to do without myself performing any programming. With the FC-300, if I want Pedal #5 to invoke the UPG Up operation, I simply go to the appropriate menu on my FR-4x, pick an item conveniently called UPG Up (what a novel idea - speaking English - who would have guessed that would work?), and then save my selection on the 4x. No programming of the pedal unit, no magic boxes, no convoluted incomprehensible programming diagrams, no obscure MIDI codes, no need for a friend called Greg, no pulling my hair out, no frustration.

So, to those ordinary folk like me who are reading this thread, beware that accomplishing the necessary programming to get the Behringer FCB1010 to do the UPG Up operation on your FR-4x, as I can so easily do on my 4x using the Roland FC-300 pedal unit, may require considerable effort and technical skill on your part, skill that obviously I do not possess. If you possess it, great. Go ahead. But if you dont, you may need a friend called Greg. But I consider it totally beyond my skill set. Also, since the FR-4x does eliminate the need for me to program my FC-300, I have not, nor am I interested in, figuring out how to program it myself from the ground up. Why should I? Ive already got it working using an easy to understand menu. Isnt that how musical instruments should be designed to be used in the first place? And even if I did understand the technology, what about my time? Sure Id save considerable money with the FBC1010, but even if I did understand what to do, what about my time spent getting it to work? With the FC-300, rather than spending hours trying to figure out obscure MIDI codes, I can spend more time playing my instrument. I need more practice time.

Actually, from a quality point of view I found the physical construction of the Behringer FCB1010 to be impressive. It is very solidly built for the rigors of stage performances. I also liked that it has more pedals than the Roland FC-300. On the surface the Behringer seems very much worth the low price. Too bad I couldnt figure out how to use it. Unfortunately, no matter how well built a product is, no matter how attractive the price, its of no value if I cant figure out how to use it. I got rid of my FCB1010 vowing to never again buy another MIDI pedal unit. It was only when I saw in the FR-4x owners manual how I could define my pedals using a menu that I worked up the courage to buy the Roland FC-300. I agree that it is more expensive, but because for the first time I can actually connect a pedal unit to my V-Accordion, something that I have wanted to do for years but could never figure out how, Roland could charge $1,000. I would still buy it in a flash. To me, it quadruples the value of my instrument.

Maybe after I die and go to heaven Ill meet up with Ewes friend Greg, and he can explain the whole thing to me. But maybe I still wont understand it.

I envy you guys who seem have the skill to program and get working the FCB1010. But lucky for me, the Roland FC-300 exists and lucky for me it has been properly integrated into the operating system of my FR-4x such that I can easily use it. To me its the best $450 that I have spent. To those who would like to have pedal control of a V-Accordion and are attracted by the lower price of the Behringer FCB1010, BEWARE. Its not easy to get working.

Leon

I agree, stay with the Roland pedal. Spending thousands on an Roland accordion then trying to save a few bucks on a pedal?
 

torch

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Leon,
I read your post line by line, and I appreciate it. You remind me of an MIT professor that I had heard in a TV interview years ago. He was responsible for the key technology of the early flat panel TV. However, he said he had to hire a kid to program his TV at home because he couldn't do it himself! Remember the nightmare of programming VCRs? I still remember the TV news talking about how difficult it is to program VCRs. Casio watches & calculators. The list goes on... About 20 years ago I fixed a computer printer for a local pastor. One of his members is a professor in computer science at a local state university. The professor couldn't fix it. Mind you it wasn't a hardware issue, but a software issue and setting. The pastor knows I have absolutely no background in computer, electronics, or engineering. He was impressed that I did something that the professor was not able to do and he said, "The best fighter is the street fighter not those with black belts in martial arts." It had nothing do with the intelligence of the professor or mine.

I realized that programming MIDI gear requires a little more than reading skill as it deals with binary and hexadecimal numbers. For someone like me who doesn't even like to look at the numbers on the calendar, it is pretty challenging. I am no expert in MIDI but your video inspired me. I don't think I will carry big foot controllers like the FCB1010 or the FC300, but I want to add one or two small foot switches to do pitch bend and rotary effects on my FR4x. Uwe thought if I could use the Softstep midi foot controller, it would be really nice. The Softstep is really compact and I picked one up at NAMM when it first came out.

Chris
 
V

VirtualAccordionist

Guest
Hi Chris,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree that many early products that were put on the market were almost impossible to configure or program. If ever I lost the documentation to a wristwatch I had to keep it on daylight saving time all year round or throw it away and buy a new one. Advancing a clock is such a simple operation. But on many electronic watches it often required such an illogical sequences of button pushes that it is impossible to guess without the documentation. It's pretty funny when you think about it. A good technical education does not necessarily prepare you for the modern world. I congratulate you in your natural skill for hacking through these things.

I agree that a smaller pedal unit is attractive. Since I mainly use "UPG Up" for my playing, which accomplishes orchestral changes by switching to a next part, I could actually get by with just one pedal. Having "UPG Down" is nice of course, as well as a few other possible feature selections that I might apply interactively as I play. But "UPG Up" is the biggie. The other things are not absolutely essential. And I certainly don't really need two volume pedals. Actually, did you know that by using the FR-4x menu system for configuring the FC-300 only one of those volume pedals actually works? Crazy, isn't it? But hey, I'm not complaining. With the FC-300 I have for the first time a working pedal unit on a V-Accordion, and I'll fight to the death if you try to take that away from me.

I'm happy to be able to share my experience on this forum for others who visit these threads and who are like me, but who fear that the FC-300 is an overpriced rip off or massive overkill. Of course it is overpriced if you have the ability and the time to accomplish the programming necessary to get the Behringer FBC1010 working. And you should be pretty proud of yourself if you can actually do that. But if, like me, you cannot accomplish the required programming for whatever reason, the FC-300 is a fine solution. It allows anyone with basic comprehension of adjusting system parameters on their V-Accordion to assign the pedals with negligible learning curve. I was up and running in about 30 minutes, and I'm a slow worker when trying out new instrument features. I think most people could accomplish the same in 10 minutes.

Leon
 
K

Keymn

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torch post_id=47787 time=1498609841 user_id=421 said:
Both the 8x and the 4x MIDI Outputs will power the mi.1 and probably Yamaha Md-BT01 but not the FR3x. A technician explained to me that there is another wire in the V accordion that needs to be connected to the MIDI output.
I am not sure why Roland 4x made you select either in or out on the midi jack. My midijet wireless has two way midi already wired, one midi jack, one cable. The difference with midi in or out is the pin out? Which I believe was explained more in an earlier forum.
As for me, I am done with all those fancy setups. Me and my accordion, iPad, headset mic, powered speakers and small mixer. We need to spend more time on technique then all those bells and whistles. Who cares what is coming out next!
I am going to save my bucks...
 

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Keymn post_id=47848 time=1498706528 user_id=2286 said:
As for me, I am done with all those fancy setups. Me and my accordion, iPad, headset mic, powered speakers and small mixer. We need to spend more time on technique then all those bells and whistles. Who cares what is coming out next!
I am going to save my bucks...
I think we all start out that way, but we grow to need or add one small piece at a time and suddenly we find ourselves with a lot of nice equipment. Sure technique is nice... but would you not agree that technique AND toys is more fun?

Id love to add a 256gb iPad Pro to a stand and digitize all my music... and then sure, a foot pedal to turn those pages... and then why not a more powerful setup than the standard speakers, or a nice mixer and active or passive speakers (with a nice amp). Now, wouldnt it be grand to not be tied down with wires anywhere and be all wireless both in the MIDI and analog outputs?

If left unchecked it never stops... lol
 
K

Keymn

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JerryPH post_id=47904 time=1498776717 user_id=1475 said:
Keymn post_id=47848 time=1498706528 user_id=2286 said:
As for me, I am done with all those fancy setups. Me and my accordion, iPad, headset mic, powered speakers and small mixer. We need to spend more time on technique then all those bells and whistles. Who cares what is coming out next!
I am going to save my bucks...
I think we all start out that way, but we grow to need or add one small piece at a time and suddenly we find ourselves with a lot of nice equipment. Sure technique is nice... but would you not agree that technique AND toys is more fun?

Id love to add a 256gb iPad Pro to a stand and digitize all my music... and then sure, a foot pedal to turn those pages... and then why not a more powerful setup than the standard speakers, or a nice mixer and active or passive speakers (with a nice amp). Now, wouldnt it be grand to not be tied down with wires anywhere and be all wireless both in the MIDI and analog outputs?
If left unchecked it never stops... lol

Agreed, You would not believe the amount of time I spent digitizing music! Done this 3,4 years ago when I was younger.
I think the VAccordion should elimate the need for amplification unless in a large crowded dancehall. I just retired my day job and continue doing gigs. Just bring my accordion...which is my goal. The left hand drums and bass are enough for many gigs. A small pa for singing, if needed. I was quoted this years ago from a Nashville studio musician, Simplicity is the hardest thing to do
 

JerryPH

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Keymn said:
I agree, stay with the Roland pedal. Spending thousands on an Roland accordion then trying to save a few bucks on a pedal?
Well, then there are people like me that saved thousands when buying a (practically) new FR-8X and would not mind having a multi function MIDI pedal and saving again. ;)

It is nowhere near as difficult as it seems, especially if someone has already done all the hard work for you, and that friend named Greg V, Uwe, Leon or many others, are more than willing to share their experience with you and make the experience not only easy but pleasurable too.

I did not realise this until recently, but there is a whole subculture out there that design and make mods for the Behringer pedal so that for people can do incredible things with it, far more complex than anything our world would ever need! :)
 
H

Howie

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JerryPH post_id=47922 time=1498815957 user_id=1475 said:
I did not realise this until recently, but there is a whole subculture out there that design and make mods for the Behringer pedal so that for people can do incredible things with it, far more complex than anything our world would ever need! :)

If youre techy, MIDI is well documented and easily manipulated. $10 in parts - and a lot of time of course - will buy you more power than many would believe.

I have experimented with MIDI a lot, to the extent of making my own MIDI hardware to do things that (it seemed) couldnt be done with store bought gear. I made my own wireless MIDI long before we could buy it, at least before someone with a regular income could afford it :)

Food for thought: a lot of light desks are run by a kind of MIDI. So, Roland owners, your next task is to control the lights for your show via your accordion and foot pedals!
 

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Howie post_id=47929 time=1498819879 user_id=2245 said:
Food for thought: a lot of light desks are run by a kind of MIDI. So, Roland owners, your next task is to control the lights for your show via your accordion and foot pedals!

Ok, Howie, you have now crossed the threshold... lol
There is NO way I personally need or want to control the lighting of my show while playing! :lol:
 
K

Keymn

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JerryPH post_id=47931 time=1498820129 user_id=1475 said:
Howie post_id=47929 time=1498819879 user_id=2245 said:
Food for thought: a lot of light desks are run by a kind of MIDI. So, Roland owners, your next task is to control the lights for your show via your accordion and foot pedals!

Ok, Howie, you have now crossed the threshold... lol
There is NO way I personally need or want to control the lighting of my show while playing! :lol:

I am done with this conversation. Ordering me a couple audio cables, midi cable, a comfortable chair! :hb
 
K

Keymn

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JerryPH post_id=47922 time=1498815957 user_id=1475 said:
Keymn said:
I agree, stay with the Roland pedal. Spending thousands on an Roland accordion then trying to save a few bucks on a pedal?
Well, then there are people like me that saved thousands when buying a (practically) new FR-8X and would not mind having a multi function MIDI pedal and saving again. ;)

It is nowhere near as difficult as it seems, especially if someone has already done all the hard work for you, and that friend named Greg V, Uwe, Leon or many others, are more than willing to share their experience with you and make the experience not only easy but pleasurable too.

I did not realise this until recently, but there is a whole subculture out there that design and make mods for the Behringer pedal so that for people can do incredible things with it, far more complex than anything our world would ever need! :)

Check this out!

http://www.accordions-asia.com/pedals/Elane_FS-7M_midi.php
 

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