First Accordion

[Quin Is In]

Hello from a newbie!

My wife is going to “surprise” me with an accordion for Christmas this year. I am very excited. Unfortunately, since it is a surprise, I won’t be able to try the accordion out beforehand. I’m hoping to steer her gently.

With a little research, I think I know somethings I want in an accordion. Please correct me if I am going down the wrong path. I want a musette sound so I am hoping for at least a LMM. I don’t know what kind of musette I want? Italian, French, Irish…

I would like to tune to 4.40 because I like to record in a studio with other instruments. (I play guitar, keys, and clarinet)

I am a big guy but I don’t have particularly large hands, how would I feel about a compact with narrow keys?

My big question, what size do I want. I see 120 bass is the most flexible but as a casual player might I prefer a 48 or 72 or some other number of bass keys? I would like to play standing and sitting. Too bad I can’t get two.

The budget is about 2K. I have my eye on a used Titano Grand 120 but I wonder if the size is too big, is this a good brand or is there something better. My daughter asked me where to buy accordions, I live in the DC area, I told her from a store. Liberty Bellows, House of Musical Traditions, and Ernest Defner/Busso Music if they are still in business.

Thank you all for reading and if you have any insight for me.

Kind regards

 

[Ben-jammin]

Since you already play keys, how many different keys do you normally play in? And how interested are you in being able to accommodate yourself with the left hand in those keys. With stradella bass the left hand is organized to have diatonic notes and associated chords of a key close together, so for a certain key there are certain rows you can stay in for all your major and minor chords for that key and they are in a common relative position to each. When you look at 48 or 72 bass instruments only certain keys will be allowed to be played with these convenient relative positions.

 

[Tom]

Compact keyboards and keys come in different sizes. Since you’re a big guy, I can guarantee the ones on the smaller end of the range will be too small to play comfortably so this is definitely a consideration to consider.

I play pretty exclusively traditional, non classical music and find that 72 basses is a perfectly adequate “sweet spot.” Although I have 120 bass accordions, I never need the full range. As Ben noted, it totally depends on the range of keys (sharps and flats) that you play.

I’m sorry I can’t chime in on the virtues of Titano or the shops you mention, but you should be able to get a really nice used accordion for 2k. But it’s buyer beware out there, so consider getting advice from a trusted friend if you need it.

Good luck!!!!

 

[Quin Is In]

Since you already play keys, how many different keys do you normally play in? And how interested are you in being able to accommodate yourself with the left hand in those keys. With stradella bass the left hand is organized to have diatonic notes and associated chords of a key close together, so for a certain key there are certain rows you can stay in for all your major and minor chords for that key and they are in a common relative position to each. When you look at 48 or 72 bass instruments only certain keys will be allowed to be played with these convenient relative positions.

Hello Ben-jammin,
It is nice to meet you. Great question. I am not a great key player, but I do play with both hands in different keys. I write songs mostly in guitar-friendly chords like A, E, D, Am, and Cm. So those are the keys I am likely to play in. Am I correct that a 48 or 72-bass instrument will let me do most of that?

 

[Quin Is In]

Compact keyboards and keys come in different sizes. Since you’re a big guy, I can guarantee the ones on the smaller end of the range will be too small to play comfortably so this is definitely a consideration to consider.

I play pretty exclusively traditional, non classical music and find that 72 basses is a perfectly adequate “sweet spot.” Although I have 120 bass accordions, I never need the full range. As Ben noted, it totally depends on the range of keys (sharps and flats) that you play.

I’m sorry I can’t chime in on the virtues of Titano or the shops you mention, but you should be able to get a really nice used accordion for 2k. But it’s buyer beware out there, so consider getting advice from a trusted friend if you need it.

Good luck!!!!

Hi Tom!
Thank your reply. It is helpful to hear that you find the 72 basses your sweet spot. So maybe I should think about a similar accordion, maybe a 72.

 

[LibraryJoe]

I've dealt with the three accordion outlets you mention. House of Musical Tradition has a very limited selection of accordions. Many years ago, HMT had a pretty vibrant collection, but for the most part now you'll only find used boxes purchased from customers or sold on consignment. See their web page..
Deffner is now pretty much a one man operation, operated by Frank Busso, Jr. He and his father are important figures in the accordion community, and their music catalog is extensive--with mostly excellent copies from now out-of print publishers like Pagani and Diero. You'd have to make an appointment to find the shop open, and if you can get through, I'd definitely speak with Frank about your needs, though on-hand stock may be limited.
A trip to Liberty Bellows is about three hours from DC. They've got several employees in their repair section, and their demonstrator is from Moldavia, named Stas. He's a fantastic player, and will spend time with you, particularly if you call and make arrangements ahead of time. Their selection appears to be the largest in the country, and you're fortunate to have it in driving distance. Their web site and YouTube channel is filled with demos, and even their sold accordion's videos remain on YouTube. You'll be paying a premium at LB, but generally customers are pleased with their purchases.
About a year ago, I bought online a new Weltmeister CBA, sight unseen from LB because the store offered free shipping and skipped the sales tax, but returned it for full credit after driving to Philly a few days later ( and purchasing an Italian Fisitalia). I may be going back up to Philadelphia soon as my comfort level with chromatics does not compare with my 50 plus years of playing piano accordion. I'd probably trade my CBA for a PA/
I've also bought and sold a couple of accordions on Ebay, but it can be a pretty risky proposition.

My suggestion would be for your wife to accompany you to Philadelphia and help pick out the accordion you're looking for. You could even bribe her by promising a meal in South Philly-- from one of their two famous cheesesteak spots, or even a meal in nearby Little Italy. Both are within walking distance from LB.
Incidentally, as I see you live in DC, I lived in Alexandria and now in Ashburn near Dulles Airport. If you want to talk more online or over the phone, PM me.

 

[pentaprism]

My wife is going to “surprise” me with an accordion for Christmas this year. I am very excited. Unfortunately, since it is a surprise, I won’t be able to try the accordion out beforehand. I’m hoping to steer her gently.

Please, for the sake of your sanity and hers, tell her not to 'surprise' you. 'Steer her gently' doesn't really work.

It's already difficult to pick a 'fitting' instrument oneself. It's impossible to pick an instrument for someone else, especially if that instrument is an accordion.

I used to do woodworking as a hobby. My wife and I had a pact: she wouldn't buy me tools and I wouldn't buy her clothing. Same thing applies to musical instruments.

 

[Quin Is In]

I've dealt with the three accordion outlets you mention. House of Musical Tradition has a very limited selection of accordions. Many years ago, HMT had a pretty vibrant collection, but for the most part now you'll only find used boxes purchased from customers or sold on consignment. See their web page..
Deffner is now pretty much a one man operation, operated by Frank Busso, Jr. He and his father are important figures in the accordion community, and their music catalog is extensive--with mostly excellent copies from now out-of print publishers like Pagani and Diero. You'd have to make an appointment to find the shop open, and if you can get through, I'd definitely speak with Frank about your needs, though on-hand stock may be limited.
A trip to Liberty Bellows is about three hours from DC. They've got several employees in their repair section, and their demonstrator is from Moldavia, named Stas. He's a fantastic player, and will spend time with you, particularly if you call and make arrangements ahead of time. Their selection appears to be the largest in the country, and you're fortunate to have it in driving distance. Their web site and YouTube channel is filled with demos, and even their sold accordion's videos remain on YouTube. You'll be paying a premium at LB, but generally customers are pleased with their purchases.
About a year ago, I bought online a new Weltmeister CBA, sight unseen from LB because the store offered free shipping and skipped the sales tax, but returned it for full credit after driving to Philly a few days later ( and purchasing an Italian Fisitalia). I may be going back up to Philadelphia soon as my comfort level with chromatics does not compare with my 50 plus years of playing piano accordion. I'd probably trade my CBA for a PA/
I've also bought and sold a couple of accordions on Ebay, but it can be a pretty risky proposition.

My suggestion would be for your wife to accompany you to Philadelphia and help pick out the accordion you're looking for. You could even bribe her by promising a meal in South Philly-- from one of their two famous cheesesteak spots, or even a meal in nearby Little Italy. Both are within walking distance from LB.
Incidentally, as I see you live in DC, I lived in Alexandria and now in Ashburn near Dulles Airport. If you want to talk more online or over the phone, PM me.

Nice to meet you LibraryJoe!
Thank you for all the great advice and insight. I will definitely PM you!
Kind Regards

​

 

[Quin Is In]

Please, for the sake of your sanity and hers, tell her not to 'surprise' you. 'Steer her gently' doesn't really work.

It's already difficult to pick a 'fitting' instrument oneself. It's impossible to pick an instrument for someone else, especially if that instrument is an accordion.

I used to do woodworking as a hobby. My wife and I had a pact: she wouldn't by me tools and I wouldn't buy you clothing. Same thing applies to musical instruments.

Hi Pentaprism,
The more I learn the more this seems true.
Thank you

 

[debra]

If you can give your wife any advice at all (without ruining the surprise) the most important message to get across is to NOT have her buy a Chinese accordion. Something like an used Titano is a good idea. Anything new within the 2k budget will be Chinese. Don't let her be fooled by nice Italian sounding names like "Scarlatti" or "Paganini"... There is a list on this site of Chinese accordion names. Give that list to her.

 

[dak]

Hello Ben-jammin,
It is nice to meet you. Great question. I am not a great key player, but I do play with both hands in different keys. I write songs mostly in guitar-friendly chords like A, E, D, Am, and Cm. So those are the keys I am likely to play in. Am I correct that a 48 or 72-bass instrument will let me do most of that?

No. 48 bass instruments tend to range from E♭ to E (which means E♭, B♭, F, C, G, D, A, E) or sometimes from A♭ to A, and that means that you don't get a B button (or B minor) near E. When you are writing for guitar, staying away from E/B is kind of constraining. 72 bass would usually work (full 12 note compass in 6 rows), 60 bass (just 12 notes in 5 rows) too. 80 bass is more flexible (16 note compass in 5 rows). If you are doing band work, you want an instrument light enough that you can play it while standing. For studio work (depending on genre) you can sit down anyway, and weight is less of a consideration.

However, for band work more often than not you leave bass/chord to other instruments and just play the melody hand in which case the number of basses is irrelevant. Unless you want to be able to throw in a bass run occasionally or a finishing chord.

 

[debra]

...
However, for band work more often than not you leave bass/chord to other instruments and just play the melody hand in which case the number of basses is irrelevant. Unless you want to be able to throw in a bass run occasionally or a finishing chord.

And in a band the number of treble notes is vital. If you choose to play PA (piano-accordion) you should realize that arrangements for accordion in a band almost always assume that every accordion player has at least 41 treble keys, and preferably some have 45 or more.
If you choose to play CBA (chromatic button accordion) then the number of treble keys is rarely a problem. Even really small button accordions will give you the 41 notes of a full size PA. Most will give you at least 46 notes, many even more.
I make lots of arrangements for accordion ensembles and orchestras and I struggle to fit everything in the standard 41 notes, and sometimes that makes register changes necessary for which there is little time... An accordion may be a "whole orchestra in one instrument", but the number of treble keys is the limiting factor to make that the truth.

 

[dak]

And in a band the number of treble notes is vital. If you choose to play PA (piano-accordion) you should realize that arrangements for accordion in a band almost always assume that every accordion player has at least 41 treble keys, and preferably some have 45 or more.
If you choose to play CBA (chromatic button accordion) then the number of treble keys is rarely a problem. Even really small button accordions will give you the 41 notes of a full size PA. Most will give you at least 46 notes, many even more.
I make lots of arrangements for accordion ensembles and orchestras and I struggle to fit everything in the standard 41 notes, and sometimes that makes register changes necessary for which there is little time... An accordion may be a "whole orchestra in one instrument", but the number of treble keys is the limiting factor to make that the truth.

"band" and "accordion ensemble" are entirely different things. In a band context, you usually work from lead sheets rather than complete arrangements assuming particular instruments and ranges and registrations.

 

[dunlustin]

Re:
" I’m hoping to steer her gently" Accepting the good advice given above, maybe you could find a choice of instruments.
You keep the surprise, your wife still chooses.

" I am hoping for at least a LMM." Agreed.

" what kind of musette" You really need to hear some different tunings
But
Trad Irish (wide) musette is somewhat out of favour for having caused nose bleeds.

"tune to 4.40 " Agreed, but ask because (arguably) 442 seems to be increasingly the default.

120 Bass - definitely the most flexible especially if you need to harmonise when playing in F# minor (!!)

48 Bass - comes in two flavours: 8rows X 6 columns this is more limited in playable keys but with the 6 usual options.
less common is 12rows X 4 cols = more playable keys but no V7 and no dim chords.

72 bass - Often a good compromise and enough bulk to have to deal with when starting out.

FYI: A number of members (OK a small minority) here have switched from PA to Chromatic (CBA) - not so easy to find at a competitive price.

 

[Quin Is In]

No. 48 bass instruments tend to range from E♭ to E (which means E♭, B♭, F, C, G, D, A, E) or sometimes from A♭ to A, and that means that you don't get a B button (or B minor) near E. When you are writing for guitar, staying away from E/B is kind of constraining. 72 bass would usually work (full 12 note compass in 6 rows), 60 bass (just 12 notes in 5 rows) too. 80 bass is more flexible (16 note compass in 5 rows). If you are doing band work, you want an instrument light enough that you can play it while standing. For studio work (depending on genre) you can sit down anyway, and weight is less of a consideration.

However, for band work more often than not you leave bass/chord to other instruments and just play the melody hand in which case the number of basses is irrelevant. Unless you want to be able to throw in a bass run occasionally or a finishing chord.

dak,
This is very helpful. Thank you!

 

[Quin Is In]

And in a band the number of treble notes is vital. If you choose to play PA (piano-accordion) you should realize that arrangements for accordion in a band almost always assume that every accordion player has at least 41 treble keys, and preferably some have 45 or more.
If you choose to play CBA (chromatic button accordion) then the number of treble keys is rarely a problem. Even really small button accordions will give you the 41 notes of a full size PA. Most will give you at least 46 notes, many even more.
I make lots of arrangements for accordion ensembles and orchestras and I struggle to fit everything in the standard 41 notes, and sometimes that makes register changes necessary for which there is little time... An accordion may be a "whole orchestra in one instrument", but the number of treble keys is the limiting factor to make that the truth.

Paul,
Thank you so much for your insight. You all have been very helpful.
Kind Regards

 

[Quin Is In]

Re:
" I’m hoping to steer her gently" Accepting the good advice given above, maybe you could find a choice of instruments.
You keep the surprise, your wife still chooses.

" I am hoping for at least a LMM." Agreed.

" what kind of musette" You really need to hear some different tunings
But
Trad Irish (wide) musette is somewhat out of favour for having caused nose bleeds.

"tune to 4.40 " Agreed, but ask because (arguably) 442 seems to be increasingly the default.

120 Bass - definitely the most flexible especially if you need to harmonise when playing in F# minor (!!)

48 Bass - comes in two flavours: 8rows X 6 columns this is more limited in playable keys but with the 6 usual options.
less common is 12rows X 4 cols = more playable keys but no V7 and no dim chords.

72 bass - Often a good compromise and enough bulk to have to deal with when starting out.

FYI: A number of members (OK a small minority) here have switched from PA to Chromatic (CBA) - not so easy to find at a competitive price.

This is great! It helps a lot!

 

[Quin Is In]

I spoke to my wife. I think we are going to take a trip to Philadelphia, spend the night, and see if we can find an accordion. I feel much more confidant after everyone's feedback. You all have been very generous with your comments. Thank you. I'm looking forward to posting a photo after I get it.

 

[pentaprism]

Being one of the people who switch from PA to CBA, I agree with the comment above that you should seriously consider CBA. But used CBAs are more difficult to find and if found, in general are costlier than PAs.

 

[Quin Is In]

So here it is, my first accordion! It’s a Stradavox LMH 120 bass tuned to 440

I think it sounds and plays great. It is very clean, no musty smell, bellows in great shape In the end I didn’t end up getting a musette but I am very happy. I purchased it at Liberty Bellows.