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Fast keyboard?

Neoscan

Neoscan

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I have a new (to me) quality accordion. It’s a lovely instrument with a Mano reeds but the keyboard action isn’t as ‘fast’ or ‘light’ as my previous Pigini accordion. By this I mean that playing fast tunes on it isn’t as easy as the keyboard response seems heavier. It’s a fairly new instrument so I’m wondering if the keyboard will loosen up a bit once it’s played more over time? Or is there any way I can adjust it to be a bit faster/lighter feeling?

I was researching taking the keys out and sanding the wood on the keys a little and also the spindle but really, I’ve no idea what would make a difference. Does anyone have any advise with this?

Much appreciated. Thanks
 
Dingo40 said:
Do not be hasty! Whatever you do, act according to the medical maxim of, "First do no harm!"
Do not make any permanent physical changes to the accordion itself until you've considered all the potential consequences.🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks- yeah, I’m not planning taking a chainsaw to my new accordion ;) There aren’t a huge amount of people in the world that have knowledge of such things so hoping to get lucky here. I’ve don’t many accordion repairs but not something like this on a newish accordion.
 
Are all the keys heavy . Check the force needed to operate a key . Should be 100 to 150 gm.
Most keyboards have a scissor spring under each key which can be bent to adjust it, but you need all the keys out .
Some have a compression spring which you can chop a bit off to weaken, for this individual keys can be removed.
But I repeat Dingo,s warning
 
colinm said:
Are all the keys heavy . Check the force needed to operate a key . Should be 100 to 150 gm.
Most keyboards have a scissor spring under each key which can be bent to adjust it, but you need all the keys out .
Some have a compression spring which you can chop a bit off to weaken, for this individual keys can be removed.
But I repeat Dingo,s warning
Click to expand...
Okay, thanks. Yeah, it’s all the keys but it’s perfectly playable, just not quiet as light/fast feeling as my other one. Perhaps I just need to get used to it though.
I could adjust a couple of springs and see if that makes and difference before proceeding.
 
You say yours has a spindle so you will be prepared for them springing out if you remove the spindle too fast. And the end ones may be difficult to get back in. Also some of the keys may be interlocked
I made a simple wood rig so that I could set the spring pressure up off the accordion
 
colinm said:
You say yours has a spindle so you will be prepared for them springing out if you remove the spindle too fast. And the end ones may be difficult to get back in. Also some of the keys may be interlocked
I made a simple wood rig so that I could set the spring pressure up off the accordion
Click to expand...
I’d make sure the keys were well taped down for sure
 
It's a special luthier chainsaw specifically for working on musical instruments ;) .

No, seriously. It's a mini electric chainsaw that's been used for hollowing out carved-top soundboards like mandolins, archtop guitars, cellos, etc.
 
Hi Neo
As I played a few instruments (guess you're talking PA - I do) I think I understand what you mean with "faster keyboard".
I'm not able to give any advice for eventual modification as I refrained from modifying my boxes. I limit myself to cleaning - if at all some "smart repairs".

Please give yourself (and the box) some patience - you'll get used to your "favourite" instrument which hopefully will be the new one.
Beside its sound for sure the (keyboard) handling as one characteristics factoring in.

As per your question "I’m wondering if the keyboard will loosen up a bit?"
I don't think so - especially not as you mentioned it's a quality instrument.
I didn't do any measurement but from the feeling over almost 40years I believe my Morino didn't loosen up (which I regard a quality feature).
 
debra said:
A keyboard that requires a bit more force can in fact be faster (as there is more spring-force pushing the pallets closed) but your fingers need to be trained to provide that extra force.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think I may just need to spend more time getting used to it. It is actually very fast in response- just not a light feeling. I’ll hold off the tools for now
 
PhiliGol said:
Hi Neo
As I played a few instruments (guess you're talking PA - I do) I think I understand what you mean with "faster keyboard".
I'm not able to give any advice for eventual modification as I refrained from modifying my boxes. I limit myself to cleaning - if at all some "smart repairs".

Please give yourself (and the box) some patience - you'll get used to your "favourite" instrument which hopefully will be the new one.
Beside its sound for sure the (keyboard) handling as one characteristics factoring in.

As per your question "I’m wondering if the keyboard will loosen up a bit?"
I don't think so - especially not as you mentioned it's a quality instrument.
I didn't do any measurement but from the feeling over almost 40years I believe my Morino didn't loosen up (which I regard a quality feature).
Click to expand...
Yes, I think you may be right. Perhaps it just needs more time spent with it. I shall wait for now.
Ps. I don’t think my Morino has loosened up either in the 26 years I’ve had it either.
 
Neoscan said:
It’s a fairly new instrument so I’m wondering if the keyboard will loosen up a bit once it’s played more over time? Or is there any way I can adjust it to be a bit faster/lighter feeling?
Click to expand...
My relatively limited experience with the several accordions I own suggests each accordion has a
"personality " regarding keyboard/bass board characteristics, e.g. key stiffness, button resistance, treble to bass balance, volume, (loudness), air consumption etc, which are permanent features of that instrument and, ideally, should have been taken into account when choosing to buy that particular instrument as any intention for subsequent rejigging is likely to be impracticable.
"It is what it is!"😄
Accept what you have: you'll soon become accustomed to it!🙂
Or, keep searching for something more to your liking! 🤔🙂.
 
Last edited:
The real way to speed up a keyboard is to change the mass of the keys. This includes the arm and the pad. i have seen a lot of different ways to do this.
Some really nice instruments I saw in the past had the wood understructure drilled out like a aircraft strut. I messed around with making arms out of magnesium but this would require hot working the keyboard during construction and the logistics of running a machining operation dealing with the shavings. I have done this but it requires a sort of intense vigilance to avoid fires.
Leverage angle is also a factor but the design of an accordion is a series of compromises and to gain something you usually have to give up something.
I have had customers that want a really shallow key travel , but the lack of pad lift becomes a breathing problem for the low octave reeds that need more air. You can use a bar linkage to deal with this (you see this on better instruments that have a white key operating a pad on the sharps reedblock) but this can have problems with linkage noise, and adds mass.
 
kimric said:
The real way to speed up a keyboard is to change the mass of the keys. This includes the arm and the pad.
Click to expand...
If that really was the way to have a fast playing keyboard I wonder what drug it takes to play ultra-fast pieces on a (grand)piano?
Compared to these hammer mechs our keyboards are super light and offer much less key travel and force.
But how many accordionists can keep up with a very good piano player - even if you give them the fastest accordion keyboard?
There must be something else than keyboard-material and mechanics :unsure:
 
To compensate for heavy keys, piano players drill their fingers out like an aircraft strut.

On a serious note, @kimric - sounds like carbon fibre might be the way forward for the supports under the keys. Stiff & light.
But just like PhiliGol, I suspect most players will be limited by their brains & fingers.

Come on, Elon, drop your pointless space programme and give us an accordion-playing-enhancing AI brain implant!
 
tcabot said:
Sounds like the springs might be a bit too heavy.

If you need to borrow a chainsaw, let me know, I can lend mine.
Click to expand...
Chainsaw? Really!!

You know @tcabot, I despair sometimes about these unhelpful comments of yours.

Sheesh! We both know all that's needed here is a crowbar with a bit of heft behind it, that'll loosen them stiff old keys. ;)
 
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