Excelsior OO rocker info sought

[Frank Barocco]

Hi all,

I am looking for info on this model, known as Excelsior rocker, or "double O" (OO). See images below.

Anyone has any experience with this particular rocker model? Impressions? Any comments?

Even though it has a Castelfidardo tag, I highly suspect this one was manufactured in New York. The tag is clearly much much newer, probably glued on by one of the owners/stores that had it recently. Right?

As far as I know, they usually had no tone chamber. But I wished to know if that assumption is correct. I think Joe Mooney was known to play one of these but I think his had no tone chamber, and was an older (more square-ish) model.
The one in case below has a tone chamber, as you can see.

Also I wished to know what year (ballpark) this specific one appears to be from.

Lastly, the bassoon reeds look to me like they are longer than most accordions made more recently... Especially the lower ones.

Anyway, thanks in advance for sharing any insights.

 

[Ben-jammin]

One thing I notice is the bass register isn’t the regular chromed version seen on many OOs. To me that might suggest it was a newer production.

I believe all the OOs I’ve seen advertised were non cassotto.

In a previous thread one of our more knowledgeable members mentioned there being a market for 4 rocker instruments after the mechanism was superseded in regular production by the now more common individual registers for each unique combination, and excelsior was building custom instruments with the 4 rocker mechanism as players would order them.

It looks like plastic valving was used on many reeds, but not all. That makes me nervous. I would probably swerve on an accordion like that unless is was priced low enough.

There are members here that know a lot more about Excelsior than me. Hopefully they can provide more complete information.

 

[Ventura]

hopefully Jim D will notice the thread and explain the timeline

in general, we know that as the Italian operation grew and both
factories existed that there was a gradual changeover of what was
built where, and that for marketing purposes the pro line was made
to appear as if it was just New York same old same old, but more and
more parts came from Italy, then assembled/finished here

at some point the only thing different on a Rocker shift model from the
same model with modern shifts was the actual shift assembly itself..
meaning the transmission was the same in either case, and as you
can see from the photo, models with this "look" have do not have
the signature offset on the low F and high A that you see on all
pro models actually built from scratch in New York.. body made in the USA

in other words, the body on this one i believe is italian, so it is not a OO
from the ground up, it is just an Excelsior with rocker shifts grafted on..
though it does appear this grill design and overall look is shared by
both New York bodies and Italian bodies.. i believe the material used for
the rockers themselves was also different, Italy vs New York, and look
different as they age.. no doubt there are other subtle differences too
that one could find in an A:B comparison on a workbench

so to say "they built OO models" might not mean much after the
transition, because New York Rockers were really totally different accordions,
unique in their day, actions and reeds and woods and mechanicals
and bellows all from old forms and tooling that, while that all eventually
was shipped to Italy, much of the equipment was never taken out of
Mothballs/grease filled drums as the newer equipment in the new factory
just kept on doing the job.. so if you really want a classic OO that plays
like a classic OO you gotta find an old New Yorker

as Ben noticed, and what i would infer from the plastic valves is the guy who
fixed this one up just changed the ones he had to, that could be seen,
probably didn't remove the reeds or rewax, and that the box was pretty
dried out at some point, so yes it might be better to avoid this one unless
you see it and closely evaluate it for yourself in person.. it could be a great
accordion, or could be great again once the refurb work is finished correctly,
but even then it would not play like a classic New York OO with the special sauce..
the seller sure does have a good buffing machine though ! shiny and smooth !

there ARE amazing made in New York models often refurbished quite
nicely that still come up for sale from time to time, and if i were to
buy another one it would certainly be from that era.. i personally would not
care for one of these latter-day rockers, when the really valuable and
i think perhaps more desirable models built during the transition years
would be the Symphony line, as those were truly the pinnacle of the brand..

i certainly do not know when the different sections of the New York
factory were put to sleep.. at what point all the reeds came from Italy
or the stradella mech became Italian etc. maybe Jim remembers when
he noticed the differences over time.. everyone from the NY factory is
dead by now and the attic at the CEMEX factory is no longer there
for someone to mount an archeological dig into it for answers

there was an expert accordionist from Texas decades ago who published a book
on his beloved Rockers, and for a time was heard from in the early newsgroups,
but i don't remember his name

 

[Frank Barocco]

Thank you very much, @Ben-jammin and @Ventura ! I really appreciate it!

All you said makes a lot of sense and helps.

The only part that still appears uncertain is where it was made - a friend of mine who is a professional musician who deals with Excelsiors for ages (Daniel Castilhos) saw this model today and said he is almost sure based on the cassotto construction that this one is from NY. But on that point too Ventura has good arguments for Italy...
If @JIM D. sees this he could also help, I am sure

At any rate, I am with Ventura: a Symphony model from the same era would likely be a better pick. Maybe a rocker would make more sense to have if it was the true NY OO without a cassotto. The model in this thread is neither that nor a Symphony, it's half man half beast. Not the best of either of the two worlds. That got me thinking.

 

[Zevy]

@JIM D. is THE expert on this subject.
I owned one of these. (I actually had two of them at one point, now that I think of it.) As far as I know, they were not chambered and they were made in New York. It had a great sound - you could not tell that there was no chamber.
The four shifts had an exclusive design; they were “rockers“. That means that you could actually adjust how much of each set of reeds you wanted to hear in the right hand.