Excelsior 921

[Waldo]

I have a shot at an Excelsior 921 CBA. I think it's Excelsior's top of the line model. Comments solicited, please.
It's claimed to be 1987 vintage but the seller is totally ignorant of accordions. It appears similar to the current 921, but has 11 treble switches vs 13, and 4 bass registers (one with a raised dimple) vs 6 on the new box.
Did they make these in a convertor type? If so, how to ID a convertor model?

Press on....
Waldo

 

[debra]

"I have a shot at" sounds like you mean you have a "shot in the dark". That's always very risky. 4 bass registers instead of 6 could mean it is only a 4 reed bass or it could mean the 5th reed (highest reed) cannot be disabled by any of the registers (that's what it is on the Crucianelli Super Video I'm working on). 11 treble registers instead of 13 could mean there is no cassotto which "demands" more registers... anything is possible so you should really get more information from the seller and then hope that information is correct...

 

[Waldo]

Paul, Yes, a shot in the dark for sure. I've kind of resigned myself to buying boxes and reselling them until I find one that pleases me. The seller is a senior citizen (F) who inherited it and knows nothing about accordions. I've researched internet and found several being played, but I can't nail down the cossoto or not question. The current 921R is cossoto (double), but it's also the 13 register example. Do you know if the 921 came in either configuration? I have assumed it's a cossoto box based on the 921R, which superceeded the one offered (no "R" suffix). I found an example that has a sliding mute switch below the register switches that performs a "quasi cosotto" function (per the player). The offered box does not have this switch. Perhaps the registers can offer a clue. They are all black, except as noted. Top to bottom they read: Bass, Accord, Harmon (white), Melod, Organ, Master, Oboe, Muset, Violin (white), Clarin, Piccolo. Would the presence of a "Piccolo" register mean LMMH? There are no modern "lines with dots" indicators on the switches. If we agree on conditions, I plan to contact the seller via telephone in order to at least hear the musette for wetness.
I found several 921's being demo'd and the hi-bass reeds can be disabled (assuming similar layouts). They also sound great, IMHO. I like the voicing much better than my Artista.

ANY HELP greatly appreciated.
Press on...
Waldo

 

[debra]

There is http://odenseharmonikacenter.dk/oh/butik/specialtilbud-knap-harmonikaer/excelsior-921-cassotto-4/ that describes a 921 with cassotto, 11 registers and 4 bass registers. Maybe that answers the questions.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks Paul, That's the very same box. I'm going for it!
Waldo

 

[Waldo]

Paul,
I want to determine weather this box is LMMM or LMMH. I intend to make telephone contact with the seller and have her play C2, while changing the registers, in order to hear the various reed blocks. My dilemma is the box has register switches labeled with instrument names as noted above. I don't know which registers to have her activate in order to hear the different blocks, with only 1 reed sounding. Lines and dots I understand, but which switches relate, I haven't a clue.
I also intend to have her play the musette switch in order to determine the wetness.

Thinking about the above, I came up with another question. How are the reeds ordered on the various blocks? Initially, I figured all the bass reeds would be on one block, but that would require a "air tunnel" from the top of the accordion down to the bottom. Or, really long pallet arms. So I now figure the bass reedplates are "staggered" across the various blocks, working their way up (Hz wise) as they progress down box. Is that correct? How about the bass side?
I have an accordion that was left in a hot car and half the reed plates were loose inside. The other half were "hanging" from the blocks by stretched wax (20mm or more). How would one figure out where they go, both the order and which block do they belong on?

Thanks, Press on....
Waldo

 

[debra]

Paul,
I want to determine weather this box is LMMM or LMMH. ...

When the box has a register labeled piccolo it should be LMMH. (But you never know until you actually hear it.)

 

[wout]

How reeds are ordered quite straight forward. For example the reeds in cassotto: 2 reedblocks. 1 block has all the white key L and M notes and the other block all the black key L and M notes.

 

[Geronimo]

How reeds are ordered quite straight forward. For example the reeds in cassotto: 2 reedblocks. 1 block has all the white key L and M notes and the other block all the black key L and M notes.

That would be a decidedly unusual reed arrangement for a CBA.

 

[debra]

How reeds are ordered quite straight forward. For example the reeds in cassotto: 2 reedblocks. 1 block has all the white key L and M notes and the other block all the black key L and M notes.

That would be a decidedly unusual reed arrangement for a CBA.

Actually its not an unusual arrangement for CBA. There are essentially two types of CBA: models for which there is a corresponding PA, differing in the keyboard and perhaps with the CBA having a few more notes (there is enough room on the reed block that is used for the black keys on the PA version) and then there are CBAs that have no equivalent PA, like the french models and bayans. They tend to have more notes, requiring 3 reed blocks in cassotto (one for each of the first three rows of buttons) and 3 reed blocks out of cassotto.
My Hohner Artiste XS (CBA) has 2 reed blocks in cassotto, matching the layout of the Morino VI (PA). I also used to have a Bugari 505 ARS (CBA) which has 2 reed blocks in cassotto, matching the layout of the 285 ARS (PA). I still have a Bugari 508 ARS/C which is a convertor CBA with 2 reed blocks in cassotto. It only has 46 notes so that still fits on 2 blocks.

The Excelsior 921 is probably also an accordion that has an equivalent PC and CBA version, and that then explains the 2 reed blocks in cassotto setup.

 

[Geronimo]

How reeds are ordered quite straight forward. For example the reeds in cassotto: 2 reedblocks. 1 block has all the white key L and M notes and the other block all the black key L and M notes.

That would be a decidedly unusual reed arrangement for a CBA.

Actually its not an unusual arrangement for CBA. There are essentially two types of CBA: models for which there is a corresponding PA, differing in the keyboard and perhaps with the CBA having a few more notes (there is enough room on the reed block that is used for the black keys on the PA version) and then there are CBAs that have no equivalent PA, like the french models and bayans.

It would still be unusual to sort them according to black and white keys rather than just alternatingly.

 

[debra]

That would be a decidedly unusual reed arrangement for a CBA.

Actually its not an unusual arrangement for CBA. There are essentially two types of CBA: models for which there is a corresponding PA, differing in the keyboard and perhaps with the CBA having a few more notes (there is enough room on the reed block that is used for the black keys on the PA version) and then there are CBAs that have no equivalent PA, like the french models and bayans.

It would still be unusual to sort them according to black and white keys rather than just alternatingly.

True and on the ones we have it isnt done that way: one reed block has all the notes from the first row, the other all the notes from the third row, and then the notes of the second row are split over the two reed blocks.
The sorting according to black and white keys is seldom complete even on a PA, as there are too many white keys and not enough black keys. It is typical to place at least one white key note on the black key reed block, for instance the highest E (thats the note I have seen put on the wrong reed block most often).

 

[Waldo]

That makes a lot of sense given the design needs/limits of the sliders and air channels.
The 921 does have a PA equivalent, as well as 2 in cossoto.
I was able to check out the seller and I'm confident she is telling the truth and the box in question is legit (not stolen).
BTW, I love it when you guys (forum members) "debate" the various aspects of our favored instrument. Much comes to light that I would never have even thought to ask the question about.

Press on....
Waldo