• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks (Click the "X" to the top right of this message to disable it)

Evidence

  • Thread starter Thread starter TW
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
To Jim the Box (in particular but not exclusively)
I know the 8x simulates the rate of air use with the number of keys held down and so is closer to an acoustic.
What other bits of bellows behaviour have been added. Shake?
My 1x CBA responds to bellows pressure in a way I find quite credible.
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts re the 8X
Thanks
 
I thought I’d add my tuppence-worth to this as a complete beginner.
After only a few weeks messing about with an accordion (a Hohner Tango II - £50 from ebay) a Roland FR1 appeared new, direct from Roland, for half price so I bought it. I love anything electronic, and am a self-confessed gadget freak and a bit of a nerd, so though an electronic accordion would be fantastic!
It arrived and I quickly plugged it in and started messing about with it. Now bear in mind here that I couldn’t actually play a tune so was just messing about with various notes. I was gutted – it sounded horrible! No matter which preset accordion type I picked it was dreadful. Someone here likened them to a “Cheesy synth”; my wife said this thing sounded like “something you’d buy for a child at Toys R Us for a tenner”. To my untrained ear the Tango II sounded far better even though it needed all the reed valves replacing and a bit of tuning done.
People on the other accordion forum suggested I persevere with it, make adjustments to various things, etc. but I didn’t have the time if I wanted to send it back in a timely manner and get a refund, which I did.
Like I said earlier, I was absolutely gutted that it turned out to be so horrid so I’ll be sticking with acoustic ones (with electronic bits added like on my Vox 4P) in the future.

So to turn this around slightly - what advantages does a Roland offer a beginner (or anyone else for that matter) over an accoustic accordion other than silent practice?
 
I keep finding people playing theses Rolands really well, am I doing something wrong?





And check out Richard Noel as well.

BobM.
 
Hi Knobby,
If you want a cheesy sound the VOX 4P fits the bill (I have the VOX 4K so I should know). :lol:
I was wondering, was the Roland 1 series one of the earliest in their range?
If so, I guess they have greatly improved.
The 8 series should be far better (and far more expensive).

I would imagine the Roland has no advantage for a beginner.
Just depends what you like and what you use it for.
As I said earlier, if you intend to get to grips with the complexities of the bellows then you have to have an acoustic instrument.
In any case, every accordion you pick up and play is different in feel and tone and ease of use.
If you are a techno lover and dream of plugging your accordion into a 10' Marshal stack with pedal effects etc... the Roland may be just the ticket.
If you wish to walk behind a group of Morris dancers playing a little accordion to keep the blighters in time then the Roland may not be much use. ;)
 
The FR1 doesn’t have the speakers to properly reproduce the bass range, also it’s got the infamous Roland menu system. Plus the default settings that most electronic keyboards have out out of the box aren’t the ones that you may want to hear, so it’s important to read the manual to customise it to your needs.

If I had one of these I would, play it though a decent amp or headphones, set the reverbs to a room, small chamber turned almost or completely off, leave some of the rasps/key noises on, it makes a big difference IMO.

I could see myself playing one, but as I’m happy with my Brandoni it would be for commercial or practical reasons.

If you’re playing with a drummer or with electric guitars it’s a no brainer as far as I can see..
 
Knobby said:
It arrived and I quickly plugged it in and started messing about with it. Now bear in mind here that I couldn’t actually play a tune so was just messing about with various notes. I was gutted – it sounded horrible! No matter which preset accordion type I picked it was dreadful. Someone here likened them to a “Cheesy synth”; my wife said this thing sounded like “something you’d buy for a child at Toys R Us for a tenner”. To my untrained ear the Tango II sounded far better even though it needed all the reed valves replacing and a bit of tuning done.
People on the other accordion forum suggested I persevere with it, make adjustments to various things, etc. but I didn’t have the time if I wanted to send it back in a timely manner and get a refund, which I did.
Click to expand...

I thought exactly the same as you about the Fr7x I tried last year, I wanted it to emulate my acoustic PA but I just felt so disappointed.
The new Fr8x however has as I said arrived at the tipping point just as digital cameras and film cameras did quite a few years ago where they can be considered as a viable alternative.

Im not sure if a beginner would want to fork out so much money, but like the cameras, give it a little more time......
 
Quote
I keep finding people playing these Rolands really well, am I doing something wrong?
I noticed that JIMD who posts here includes a pretty significant training package with any Roland he sells in the USA and also offers further instruction opportunities as well.
I wonder if you really need a guide to get the best out of Rolands?

Quote
And check out Richard Noel as well.
for example:

which led to
Olag Baksheev

which led to
Heinz Siemans (Caution its a Roland Competition)


Please explain how some people are completely dismissive of these instruments.
What am I missing?
 
Dear all - I am sorry that my remarks have caused a stir, but PLEASE note that I made it quite quite clear that these were my personal observations, not 'evidence'. E.g. I said that <SIZE size="150">I have not come across any serious Roland players: I never said that there aren't any. I gave you reasons for my view, because my view was being criticised. I'm not attacking your views, or your choices!

The video links: two of them are not to my taste at all and actually confirm my prejudice! I like Mumford & sons, and didn't know that they use a digital box, but then it's only ever used in the background.

I stick with my painting analogy. I'm an artist. I teach art & design. I teach digital media as well, quite happily - not a technophobe by any means.
David Hockney produced a series of landscapes on an iPad: it's valid artwork, but it does nothing for me. However, he didn't start out on an iPad but chose it as a tool. You still need composition skills, awareness of colour etc to paint digitally, but the result lacks texture and depth. Using a digital tool as an introduction to an artform like painting or playing an instrument means not offering the learner the full potential experience, and can lead to him/her losing interest for the wrong reasons.
 
Knobby said:
I thought I’d add my tuppence-worth to this as a complete beginner.
After only a few weeks messing about with an accordion (a Hohner Tango II - £50 from ebay) a Roland FR1 appeared new, direct from Roland, for half price so I bought it. I love anything electronic, and am a self-confessed gadget freak and a bit of a nerd, so though an electronic accordion would be fantastic!
It arrived and I quickly plugged it in and started messing about with it. Now bear in mind here that I couldn’t actually play a tune so was just messing about with various notes. I was gutted – it sounded horrible! No matter which preset accordion type I picked it was dreadful. Someone here likened them to a “Cheesy synth”; my wife said this thing sounded like “something you’d buy for a child at Toys R Us for a tenner”. To my untrained ear the Tango II sounded far better even though it needed all the reed valves replacing and a bit of tuning done.
People on the other accordion forum suggested I persevere with it, make adjustments to various things, etc. but I didn’t have the time if I wanted to send it back in a timely manner and get a refund, which I did.
Like I said earlier, I was absolutely gutted that it turned out to be so horrid so I’ll be sticking with acoustic ones (with electronic bits added like on my Vox 4P) in the future.

So to turn this around slightly - what advantages does a Roland offer a beginner (or anyone else for that matter) over an accoustic accordion other than silent practice?
Click to expand...

Im not going to dispute that out of the box and upon first listening the Roland sounds ....different ...shall we say ....the onboard speakers on the FR1 X are a bit ....lacking in depth shall we say.....so plug it in ....easily to an amp (keyboard amp....not your guitar amp) or a hi fi

(remember those lovely turntables ,tuners amps and those marvliouss BIG speakers with 4 -- 6 and 8 inch bass drive units ......sorry I was getting all misty there )

The sounds are I found improved by the bellows setting no end ....and luckily for me within about twenty minutes of taking it from the box ....I just found the right page(in the bloody awful manual) and set the bellows to a pressure that I like and it works.. which increased the strength and tone of the sound.....there is also an advantage .....for anybody ....does your acoustic have a bellows adjuster.....mine dont........

Now clap on the headphones, into hi fi or the onboard jack , turn up the volume and sail away........without actually disturbing anybody else ......unless of course you want to that is......then switch the speakers on the hifi /amp on :tup:

Whats the advantage to a learner , apart from the silent practice .......well thats the huge advantage ....not just for the learner ....but for all those around ....partner, neighbour, passer-by.........

Apart from that there is no advantage / disadvantage really....this thread started because they were being dismissed as a first accordion....unfairly ,then the personal prejudices started looming .........

Look I do not want to get bent out of shape about this, but some of the comments about the Rolands are tipping over into comments about the end users or just making ill informed and spurious analogies ............Bottom line for me is:

Rolands are here with us ....if you like them, use them and play them...they play in exactly the same manner as an acoustic....you squeeze them in and out ....hit some buttons and hit some keys........if you dont like em, fine leave them alone......much as I leave Jimmy Shand CDs in peace.....superb player and musician (where is George btw) ....not my thing.......which is probably the worst and best analogy I can come up with :roll:

The Roland will not ....well I say this and to be fair I should say The FR1 x does not give you the timbre and whimsical sound that you can get from a slowly played acoustic.....(the bigger brothers might)....but you cannot put an acoustic through a wah pedal either (purists wincing and feeling their chests :b :lol: )
.......and probably most of you would not want to.........but I do :twisted:
 
PS - I can see how inflammatory my remark about not having met any serious/professional digital players is. I apologise for that: it was not meant that way, but the absence of tone of voice on a forum makes it very easy to come across wrong. The tone of voice would have been one of mild bemusement, as in 'odd, isn't it?'

To rephrase in a more acceptable (I hope) way: I listen to a hell of a lot of accordion music (incl the diatonic accordion aka melodeon), and absolutely ALL of it is acoustic. This may have something to do with the genres I am attracted to...
 
Anyanka said:
Dear all - I am sorry that my remarks have caused a stir, but PLEASE note that I made it quite quite clear that these were my personal observations, not 'evidence'. E.g. I said that <SIZE size="150">I have not come across any serious Roland players: I never said that there aren't any. I gave you reasons for my view, because my view was being criticised. I'm not attacking your views, or your choices!

The video links: two of them are not to my taste at all and actually confirm my prejudice! I like Mumford & sons, and didn't know that they use a digital box, but then it's only ever used in the background.

I stick with my painting analogy. I'm an artist. I teach art & design. I teach digital media as well, quite happily - not a technophobe by any means.
David Hockney produced a series of landscapes on an iPad: it's valid artwork, but it does nothing for me. However, he didn't start out on an iPad but chose it as a tool. You still need composition skills, awareness of colour etc to paint digitally, but the result lacks texture and depth. Using a digital tool as an introduction to an artform like painting or playing an instrument means not offering the learner the full potential experience, and can lead to him/her losing interest for the wrong reasons.
Click to expand...

EDIT NOTE: This was being written as Anyanka posted her last note , this is not directed soley at Anyanka as a response to that post but to those who have tried and expected the Roland to be a replacement for an acoustic....my opinion... :D


If the machine (Roland) did not play exactly the same way as a "Real" accordion....if it was not a tactile and responsive instrument......if you did not have to strap it on and wear it to use it....if it was just a simalcrum lying behind the screen of a computer...then you would have a fair point.....But you do play it........just like a squeeze box , because that is what it is.....

No it does not sound the same as an acoustic.....in some ways it sounds clearer , cleaner ....less clunky , less wheezy ....

It is not a replacement ....it is an alternative .....if you do not like the music that they play ,then fine ...you do not like the music that they play......then fine ....but to dismiss the instrument is like saying you don't like the piano because such and such plays it .......and as for the analogy between
art and computer art.............one is an extension by electronic means of a tactile and plastic set of media.......one is an imitation of the other having a value and artistic resonance and quality all of it's own..........similar but differently alternative........... {}
 
jarvo said:
It is not a replacement ....it is an alternative .....if you do not like the music that they play ,then fine ...you do not like the music that they play......then fine ....but to dismiss the instrument is like saying you dont like the piano because such and such plays it .......
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: I am not dismissing the instrument at all, nor those who play it. I just dont want to listen to it, and I wouldnt recommend it for a beginner.
Im also not disliking the instrument because of the kind of music played on it: its the other way round; if you play my kind of music on a digi-box, then I dont enjoy it half as much as on a Pigini. Thing is that hardly anyone plays my kind of music on a digital accn anyway.
I respect your point of view, Jarvo: youve made your choice, because you prefer the cleaner sound. And youre right: it is cleaner and clearer. I am a texture fiend, in art & music. :twisted: I dont like it too clean (you should see my house)
 
Jarvo: you've made your choice, because you prefer the cleaner sound.


I made my choice because I like both.......I have both and play both....one does not replace the other.....anyhoo.......there ya go.....

Any Swedish toooon pointers yet.....I am a cultural sponge........no square pants tho' ...... :D
 
jarvo said:
Jarvo: youve made your choice, because you prefer the cleaner sound.


I made my choice because I like both.......I have both and play both....one does not replace the other.....anyhoo.......there ya go.....

Any Swedish toooon pointers yet.....I am a cultural sponge........no square pants tho ...... :D
Click to expand...

I sit corrected: both. Even better.

Have made a new thread for Swedish tunes.
 
I’ve got a Weltmeister 72 hanging around doing nothing, all this chat is making me fancy a Roland for practicing at night.. :)
 
BobM said:
Jarvo, I was wondering, is this you?

Click to expand...




Cant be ....this is a button accordion....everything else is familiar.....what ...is this this not costume de rigeur ?
 
Anyanka said:
jarvo said:
It is not a replacement ....it is an alternative .....if you do not like the music that they play ,then fine ...you do not like the music that they play......then fine ....but to dismiss the instrument is like saying you dont like the piano because such and such plays it .......
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: I am not dismissing the instrument at all, nor those who play it. I just dont want to listen to it, and I wouldnt recommend it for a beginner.
Im also not disliking the instrument because of the kind of music played on it: its the other way round; if you play my kind of music on a digi-box, then I dont enjoy it half as much as on a Pigini. Thing is that hardly anyone plays my kind of music on a digital accn anyway.
I respect your point of view, Jarvo: youve made your choice, because you prefer the cleaner sound. And youre right: it is cleaner and clearer. I am a texture fiend, in art & music. :twisted: I dont like it too clean (you should see my house)
Click to expand...

FWIW: Ive been playing according for 61 years, professionally for 40, including radio/television. I presently own three acoustic accordions (Excelsior Continental Artist and two Pancordions). I recently purchased a Roland FR-8x V-accordion and love it! I dont play the acoustics anymore. I like the fact that I can get 140 different accordion sounds, it plays like my acoustics and can even bellow shake and triple shake. I dont like the synth sounds (piano, organ, guitar, etc.) but Im spoiled since I also play several pro keyboard synths, trpt, and guitar.

Beauty is in the <S>eyes</S> ears of the beholder and I like what I hear. :tup:

Wally G
 
Quote
" I don't play the acoustics anymore."
Now that's what I call an endorsement! And from experience too!
So nice when set against the glib dismissals of people who either have never played a Roland or "tried one once." I even read someone saying that it was down to poor Roland sampling.
Ignoring the Luddite faction, I have been trying to understand why people are so dismissive and at the same time surprised at the quality of music available (eg on Youtube).
My two pennorth:
1. It's true that the default bellows setting is off-putting. You do need to know how to reset it but the information is available.
2. Experience most commonly is with FR1-X models and the speakers are weedy and unflattering. I haven't tried to amp the signal as Jarvo suggests but headphones certainly give a completely different experience to the "weedy" speakers.
Aside: I've tried to replicate the push/pull of the FR18D and am not impressed with the result - v hard work. Maybe that's why Diatonic players have had a bad first experience - especially with the default bellows setting.
 
After playing electronic organs, pianos and synths for 40+ years I took a leap into the accoustic accordion world a few months ago.

My current electronic inventory consists of a Hammond XK-3c system, a Roland FP-4 stage piano and a Roland BK-7m backing module. I'm a real fan of Roland kit... the technology is brilliant, the sounds are great, and the build quality is outstanding, but I'm afraid I've never really seen the point of a virtual accordion.

I love playing my humble Hohner Bravo III 72 as a self-contained accoustic instrument. I'm enjoying dipping into the various styles of music to which it is so well suited.. English/Irish/Scottish dance, French, Russian, Klezmer.. music I would never touch on my keyboards. I don't want my accordion to sound like a bass guitar or a string orchestra. I don't feel any urge to install MIDI and hook it up to the BK-7m. I just get a thrill from knowing that I'm making music by squeezing the air through the reeds.

Chris H
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top