Evidence

[Anyanka]

...the glib dismissals of people who either have never played a Roland or tried one once.

I actually dont have to play a Roland to know that its not for me [note that Im making it abundantly clear, YET AGAIN, that its not a global glib dismissal but a personal decision]. Ive heard them, and am not moved by what I hear.

I did compare various digital pianos to traditional ones before purchasing a few years ago, which was when I realised the enormous difference between real and digital playing. There is a physical feedback from real instruments which takes the experience beyond the production of sounds; real instruments possess an individuality and subtlety that I relate to. I wish I could explain it/show it to those of you who cant feel that quality, but experience tells me that its not possible...

However, this is why, returning once again to the original question at the start of this thread, a beginner should be given the chance to have that full complete experience.

 

[Jim the box]

I actually don't have to play a Roland to know that it's not for me [note that I'm making it abundantly clear, YET AGAIN, that it's not a global "glib" dismissal but a personal decision]. I've heard them, and am not moved by what I hear.

I did compare various digital pianos to traditional ones before purchasing a few years ago, which was when I realised the enormous difference between real and digital playing. There is a physical feedback from real instruments which takes the experience beyond the production of sounds; real instruments possess an individuality and subtlety that I relate to. I wish I could explain it/show it to those of you who can't feel that quality, but experience tells me that it's not possible...

I feel that you are not qualified to knock it Anyanka until you have tried it. :? ...........Surely that's how it goes isn't it :?:

Technology marches on and improves, try an Fr8x and then let us know :tup:

It's digital cameras again :roll:

 

[Anyanka]

Jim, I am not 'knocking' it. I have tried digital keyboards and learned how much & why I prefer real pianos. That experience is relevant.

I have played in a band alongside a Roland on quite a few occasions; winced when it got switched to 'flute' or 'trumpet' in the middle of a reel. Almost every time, the (highly accomplished) accordionist ran out of battery power halfway through the gig. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, that made me want to have a go.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from playing the things, but why can you not respect that they are not for everyone?

 

[Anyanka]

A slight digression re your analogy "it's digital cameras again": I was an avid photographer with my own darkroom. I switched to using a small digital camera for reasons of convenience & portability. I would not dream of trying to foist that choice on anyone still using old technology, emulsion, darkroom processes - because I know that there is a kind of quality that you can only achieve with real negatives & photographic paper. I can mimic the surface effects with filters and adjustments in Adobe Photoshop (which I use extensively & teach at an FE college), but it will only ever be a mimicking. It will not be real.

So, yes, very good analogy. In photography, I chose easy & digital, but I do not need to pretend that my choice is superior in every way. What is more, I would advise anyone who wants to get into photography at a serious level to learn the traditional processes first.

 

[knobby]

Right then........... going back to the original subject of this highly emotive thread:-

So is there any real evidence of the benefit of starting with traditional technology rather than an electronic instrument for beginning accordionists?

Yes, because if nothing else there would appear to be a huge cost benefit in starting off with a traditional accordion. A tatty but playable (maybe only just but playable none the less) accoustic accordion can be had for £100 or less. Reasonably good accordions for £400-£500 depending upon where you look/shop.

A havent seen a Roland FR1 for less than £500, which is quite a lot of money for a beginner to pay out before theyve even decided that an accordion is for them. And I cant see a beginner forking out £4000 (yes, thats four thousand pounds) for a new FR8x. Well, not unless theyre lottery winners.

 

[Jim the box]

Jim, I am not knocking it. I have tried digital keyboards and learned how much & why I prefer real pianos. That experience is relevant.

I have played in a band alongside a Roland on quite a few occasions; winced when it got switched to flute or trumpet in the middle of a reel. Almost every time, the (highly accomplished) accordionist ran out of battery power halfway through the gig. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, that made me want to have a go.

Im not trying to dissuade anyone from playing the things, but why can you not respect that they are not for everyone?

I too have a digital piano with weighted keys and prefered it to the upright I sold on.

I also have a midi accordion that has 128+ different sounds at my disposal on the right hand and I choose to play none, I only use the midi for the bass.

If you read my posts you will find that I am have not said that they are not for everyone, merely that you should not knock them until you try them.

After all its not what you have got but how you use it



I could sell you a good SLR camera Knobby for £100 complete with two lenses. Far cheaper than a Digital :tup:

My midi cost £4500 14 years ago

 

[dunlustin]

So, here is a question mainly for WallyG but Welcome any well-informed contributor:
For 40+ years I've dabbled in acoustic Free reed boxes - starting with a 40 key Anglo, then a Hohner ADG Melodeon, then a Casali B/C/C# 48 bass and now CBA (s).
I'm not about to give up on my acoustic interest but love my Roland FR1-X,
So - what are the reasons for no longer playing the acoustic or at least why did the V accordion become the first choice instrument?
Responses particularly welcome from those who have made the move or are likely to do so in the future.
This is I think relevant to the OP because it's about how durable a choice might be.

 

[WallyG]

So, here is a question mainly for WallyG but Welcome any well-informed contributor:
For 40+ years Ive dabbled in acoustic Free reed boxes - starting with a 40 key Anglo, then a Hohner ADG Melodeon, then a Casali B/C/C# 48 bass and now CBA (s).
Im not about to give up on my acoustic interest but love my Roland FR1-X,
So - what are the reasons for no longer playing the acoustic or at least why did the V accordion become the first choice instrument?
Responses particularly welcome from those who have made the move or are likely to do so in the future.
This is I think relevant to the OP because its about how durable a choice might be.

Hi dunlustin,

Whats nice about life is that we have options. The V-Accordion line from Roland is not for everyone. There are different styles of music, different playing techniques and just how the accordion should feel and sound. Looking at the original topic for this thread, is the V-acc for a beginner? Depends on the beginner. My first accordion that my parents purchased for me was an Iorio. Didnt come with an owner’s manual. You opened up the case, took the accordion out, strapped it on, and away you went trying to tackle Mary had a little lamb.

The FR-8x comes with a 126 page operators manual that would make some peoples eyes roll. The 8x has a built-in color display with a multitude of menus, sub-menus, and enough variables to make the box do almost anything. Disclaimer: Im an Electronics Design Engineer so I thrive on this stuff! Many people just want to press a register and play.

So why did I decide to make the V-Accordion my box of choice? After 40 years of playing with my 5 piece Polka Band from Maine to Florida while holding down a regular gig as an Integrated Circuit Designer, I retired from music, bought a new 2002 Cirrus SR22 airplane and my wife and I traveled around the country.

Last year I decided to get back into music and we converted one of our rooms into a music room. Bought a whole bunch of new equipment and got back into the swing of things. Mostly for my wife and my personal enjoyment. (She also sings with my OMB). Im playing all types of music including genres that I didnt do on the road.

One of the limitations of acoustical accordions is the limited amount of sounds. My Iorio had three registers and they all sounded the same to me. Even my Excelsior only has 10. I was thinking about getting a new acoustic, but also did some research on Rolands V-accordion.

I travelled form AZ to Salt Lake City, UT to visit a dealer who had one of the first 8xs in stock. It was love at first <S>sight</S> play! I was surprised how much it played like a regular acoustic while offering an almost unlimited variety of accordion sounds (my main criterion). Although the 8x out of the box comes with 140 different accordion sounds, you can modify them with different levels of detuning (Musset) and many effects.

The bellows parameters are easily adjusted to suit your personal tastes; the key action is fast enough to handle any playing speed. Check out this You Tube video for what an amateur (okay he’s not really a beginner ) can do with a 7x V-Accordion.

So this is why the V-Accordion is my first choice accordion. Not my first choice instrument since I also play Synthesizer, Guitar, and Trumpet. (Jack of all trades, Master of none…)

Wally G

 

[simonking]

Quote
...either have never played a Roland or tried one once....

Ive just come back from Eastbourne so Ive tried one twice now..... and I still think they sound naff! But you probably guessed that anyway What I really cant get is that a few people somehow think these are an improvement or technological advance in accordions. I was trying to get the point across they arent accordions at all; a sideways step certainly but it is totally absurd to think of them replacements.

 

[jarvo]

Quote
...either have never played a Roland or tried one once....

Ive just come back from Eastbourne so Ive tried one twice now..... and I still think they sound naff! But you probably guessed that anyway What I really cant get is that a few people somehow think these are an improvement or technological advance in accordions. I was trying to get the point across they arent accordions at all; a sideways step certainly but it is totally absurd to think of them replacements.[/quote]

I dont think that anyone has suggested that V Ackordeens are replacements for acoustic Ackordeens...extensions or developments thereof perhaps..
Muddy Waters invented electricity ,one of my favourite lines from the Crossroads film......

...they ARE a technological advance ....inarguably...an improvement ...ah ,there the jury is still out...for some, yes , for others , no....

I have both...and I like both....not sitting on the fence.....they play the same ..method wise...and play differently ...musically wise...so far in this debate I have not read anybody disrespect, insult or denigrate the acoustic instrument or players thereof like those who have slagged off the Roland or digital...and furthermore at this point ....I just cannot be bothered to argue or debate this anymore......

Long live the accordion ..Acoustic or Electric and to each their own.

Jarvo

 

[WallyG]

Quote
...either have never played a Roland or tried one once....

Ive just come back from Eastbourne so Ive tried one twice now..... and I still think they sound naff! But you probably guessed that anyway What I really cant get is that a few people somehow think these are an improvement or technological advance in accordions. I was trying to get the point across they arent accordions at all; a sideways step certainly but it is totally absurd to think of them replacements.[/quote]

I dont think that anyone has suggested that V Ackordeens are replacements for acoustic Ackordeens...extensions or developments thereof perhaps..
Muddy Waters invented electricity ,one of my favourite lines from the Crossroads film......

...they ARE a technological advance ....inarguably...an improvement ...ah ,there the jury is still out...for some, yes , for others , no....

I have both...and I like both....not sitting on the fence.....they play the same ..method wise...and play differently ...musically wise...and furthermore at this point ....I just cannot be bothered to argue or debate this anymore......

Long live the accordion ..Acoustic or Electric and to each their own.

Jarvo[/quote]

Jarvo,

Very nicely put!

Cheers!

Wally G

 

[dunlustin]

A quick big thank you to WallyG for getting back with your thoughts.

May your crosswinds never be >20kts.

 

[lasvegascolonel]

I tend to think of electronic accordions as three things simultaneously:

1. A poor imitation of a real accordion.
2. A potentially versatile electronic instrument.
3. A useful way to practice quietly.

I certainly dont think they can be lumped in the same category as accordions, however - they look similar, but the construction, sound production and acoustic-mechanical feedback all work in a completely different way. Yes, I have tried one, and yes, it was better than I expected, but the fundamental point above remains. I would even buy one, but only for the reason of occasional silent practice.

I would strongly disagree with point as a poor imitation ....I think they are a very good imitation....an imitation...or development ..or extension from....certainly....they are also very clinical and therefore show up your mistakes with crystal clarity ...they are like the difference between an acoustic
guitar and an electric guitar....but nonetheless still valid instruments and probably better suited to a different sort of music to the traditional music that acoustic accordions play...again ,like acoustic guitars and electric....dont play Delta Blues on an electric gitfiddle ...and dont attempt Chicago Blues on an acoustic...Horses for courses.... [/quote]

Agreed. Some people swear vinyl records produce better music than my iPod. Still, I like the clarity, non-crackling, non-scratching sound of digital. I notice with the V accordions, you dont hear the internal components---just the musical notes---and I like that. Ill keep my new acoustic for a long time, but like the camera that takes film and the cassette recorder, the acoustics technology is being replaced, for better or worse.