DA Tuner Lite for Ipad/PC

[wirralaccordion]

Does anybody use DA Tuner Lite on Ipad or PC. The sites for downloading this programme state that the programme is for Android use only.

 

[debra]

Why not try "C Tuner Lite" which is for iPhone/iPad? I have no experience with it (I use DA Tuner Lite on Android) but it is free and gets good comments.

 

[TomBR]

Not relevant to the Ipad/PC question but I'm using DaTuner "Pro" following Paul's recommendation. Only £1.89, I'm impressed with it though I've only really used it for fiddle tuning so far. I like the "strobe" readout and particularly wanted something that gives a Hz reading. (for a quick indication of accordion pitch standard.)

 

[Mr Mark]

I was unable to find DAtuner for iPad also. I tried quite a few for tuning the accordion on the iPad and VITALtuner seemed to work best for my needs as it was free and was the least flaky of ones I tried - it gave consistent readouts everytime and had the least trouble differentiating between notes of lower frequencies.

Very responsive with readouts in Hz (frequency), cents, note letter and octave number (E3 for example) with simple arrows right or left to indicate which way to go along with a gauge indicating which way to go in terms of cents.

Various paid (pro) versions include Lots of 'tunings' available for a variety of string instruments to wind instruments, concert A calibration available along with temperaments/sweeter tunings which might be handing if you are tuning to 442 for example. Caveat: I haven't used any of these paid versions to comment on their effectiveness.

It doesn't provide multiple readouts at the same time so I can't say how good it would be trying to get a read on multiple reeds at once.


I did look at the C tuner lite - the only thing it is missing is a Hz readout.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Mr Mark,

Re Vital Tuner

Would this be the Student version, Pro version or Plus version that you have used?

 

[Mr Mark]

I'm pretty sure I am using the Poor version. I don't know how to check which one it is, but I do know it is not the Pro version.

Version 1.1.4 - 21.9 MB is all I can find.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Thanks Mr Mark. I've got the free version now. I'm going to go through the treble notes on clarinet (single reed ) and check how close to equal temperament my accordion is tuned. It seems to show to 1 cent. I'll measure on a pull and push of the bellows.
I won't be attempting to tune my accordion but I don't know what an acceptable deviation is anyway!
I suppose I could do the same for a single reed on the bass as it is possible to isolate one ( I have just one single reed registration on my Brandoni accordion )

 

[JerryPH]

A "professional" tune is within 1 cent on all notes except where the tremolo is dictated. A lower end tune is within 2-3 cents. Anything more and it starts to become evident.

 

[debra]

A professional tune is within 1 cent on all notes except where the tremolo is dictated. A lower end tune is within 2-3 cents. Anything more and it starts to become evident.

It also depends on the notes frequency. Any deviation over 1 cent will be evident for high notes (near 2 octaves above the standard A) but 2 or 3 cents are immaterial for very low notes (2 octaves below standard A, as can be played only in the L register on a PA).
Whether the professional tune of within 1 cent can be achieved highly depends on the accordion construction and on the valves. My Hohner Morino Artiste is already very critical but the AKKO bayan even more so. The tuning of a note changes depending on 1) whether the accordion is resting on its feet versus is placed in the playing orientation, 2) whether the bellows pins (or bolts in my case) are inserted and 3) whether one reed is used by itself or together with other reeds (for the same note or a different note) are played simultaneously. The orientation of the accordion causes gravity to pull differently on the valves in cassotto. The bellows pins and other reeds that are playing are changing the difference between air pressure inside and outside. It is all very very critical. For instance: on the low F (just over one octave below standard A) in MH I could hear a slight tremolo. It turned out that the M was about 3 cents too low (depending on volume too) and H was 1 cent too high (thats ok). When I placed the accordion on its feet the tremolo was gone. When some bellows bolts were removed (not all of them because then the two halves come apart) the tremolo was also gone even in the playing orientation. So I had to raise the pitch of the M reeds a bit (both for open and close), put the accordion back together *completely*, turn in the playing position and only then could I hear whether the tuning was now OK or not. (Luckily it was.) This just goes to show how laborious tuning can be and how hard it is to achieve professional tuning.

 

[TomBR]

That's fascinating Paul, thanks for writing it down. Sounds as though too good an ear can make life difficult, in much the same way as a sense of "perfect" (ie absolute) pitch can be a disadvantage for a musician. "Perfect is the enemy of good."

 

[debra]

Thats fascinating Paul, thanks for writing it down. Sounds as though too good an ear can make life difficult, in much the same way as a sense of perfect (ie absolute) pitch can be a disadvantage for a musician. Perfect is the enemy of good.

Well... on most accordions it is not that much of a problem. I have tuned Italian accordions (including Hohner Morino N and S series which are Italian) with cassotto and while you need to check tuning with reed blocks in the instrument (especially reed blocks in cassotto where the A=440Hz can easily drop 1Hz between tuning table and inside the instrument, and 1Hz=4 cents) I have not found a difference there between accordion on its feet versus in playing orientation, and no difference between bellows pins inserted or removed, and no difference between playing 1 reed or multiple reeds. It must be a thing with the different construction, different reeds and different valves used in Russian bayans versus Italian accordions.

 

[Mr Mark]

Good luck if you have to tune! I should note that I am an AMATEUR in this realm, but I think the reasoning for the VITALtuner is pretty sound given my situation and for those just getting into things.

When it came to tuning my own accordion I definitely found that tolerances were less (more noticeable) on the higher notes than lower notes, and by no means was it a 'professional' standard when I was done - but was acceptable for my ears and everyone who has heard it always complimented on the sound (it was extremely difficult to get all the reeds within a cent - some may have been upwards of five cents out as some of the reeds weren't perfectly secured to the rivets and that minute amount of 'play' made it seemingly impossible to get things perfect). It was a musette tuning as well so this may or may not have allowed for more tolerance in terms of being out a few more cents. Finally, the biggest issue I actually had was not tuning but getting the voicings right, and in fact this is still a problem - particularly on some of the lower notes :hb .

There is some great professional advice in here, I think DeBra's post is case in poin; there are numerous factors when tuning, probably the most critical is to get a read on things before you start taking things apart because as indicated a reedblock on the tuning table (which in and of itself has huge effect on the tuning i.e. getting enough sustained air pressure and/or a tight fit with the reedblock itself) is going to have different characteristics than when fully installed into the accordion - very similar to how the wood type and body shape of a guitar substantially affect the tone of the instrument. There are so many factors and being aware of them ahead of time will save you a ton of error via trial.

 

[wirralaccordion]

A lower end tune is within 2-3 cents. Anything more and it starts to become evident.

This implies that if more than 2 or 3 cents the accordion should be re-tuned by a professional tuner. I wonder however if most players would be able to see the difference before and after the tuning.

 

[debra]

A lower end tune is within 2-3 cents. Anything more and it starts to become evident.

This implies that if more than 2 or 3 cents the accordion should be re-tuned by a professional tuner. I wonder however if most players would be able to see the difference before and after the tuning.

You mean hear the difference?
I dont care too much what the tuner tells me (except when everything is back together and I play a note after two weeks of practice to let things settle down). I care about what I hear. If a very low note is off by more than 3 cents I can hear it. If it is a middle note it should be less than 2 cents off and for a high note 1 cent is already too much so I can hear that.

 

[wirralaccordion]

That is my point, Paul

Lesser mortals with less sensitive hearing may find that they may not notice a difference upto say 5 cents for low notes and 3 cents for high notes.
It is fairly obvious when a piano is out of tune but with a piano accordion I wonder whether most of us would be aware of it, particularly when our ears are used to hearing only our own instruments for the majority of the tim e.