Chromatic / electronic curiosity

[JerryPH]

For acoustic accordions, free/converter bass and standard bass instruments are quite different since the need to carry a melody on few reeds requires a more cutting disposition. Also there is less space to work with: a 5-voice standard bass has 60 reeds, a 2-voice free bass about double.

Roland doesn't differentiate here as far as I know (which admittedly is not very far).

Also on an acoustic accordion, converter/free bass opens a single pallet on a button while standard bass mode opens two pallets (one of them large) on the bass buttons and three pallets on the chord buttons. That makes for significantly different resistance/action in single-note mode.

I am intimately familiar with the difference, I own them both systems:

Hohner FB-36



Hohner Morino VI N


Roland FR-8X


Hohner Gola 459



For me, it has nothing to do with the internal workings, but rather because the feel of the Roland is very uncomfortable to me. I started on the MIII system in 1973 (50 years ago, holy crap, that makes me feel so old... LOL), and choose to stick with that today and the spacing and placement of the buttons on the Roland gives me craps after a few minutes of use, it's no more difficult than that. Since it is not comfortable, I don't use it ever for Free Bass music on the Roland, though I do use the FB "switch" with access to percussion instruments on the left hand now and then.

This is strictly me, has nothing to do with how good or bad the other systems are nor what makes them different.

Another one of my idiosyncracies is that even if I equally enjoy a digital and acoustic, I have a strong personal preference for the sound of the acoustic/Free Bass combination over the option of Free Bass/anything digital. There is something distinctly pleasurable to me to be able to play piano music on an acoustic accordion, whereas I can play other music that I like on the 8X and enjoy all the sonic benefits of a digital since I have access to both easily enough.

I've said it before, but I think that I am the most perfectly balanced digital/acoustic player ever known, I have no distinct preference of one over the other, Each holds a special place in my heart, neither better, neither worse... lol

 

[Tom]

I am intimately familiar with the difference, I own them both systems:

Hohner FB-36



Hohner Morino VI N


Roland FR-8X


Hohner Gola 459



For me, it has nothing to do with the internal workings, but rather because the feel of the Roland is very uncomfortable to me. I started on the MIII system in 1973 (50 years ago, holy crap, that makes me feel so old... LOL), and choose to stick with that today and the spacing and placement of the buttons on the Roland gives me craps after a few minutes of use, it's no more difficult than that. Since it is not comfortable, I don't use it ever for Free Bass music on the Roland, though I do use the FB "switch" with access to percussion instruments on the left hand now and then.

This is strictly me, has nothing to do with how good or bad the other systems are nor what makes them different.

Another one of my idiosyncracies is that even if I equally enjoy a digital and acoustic, I have a strong personal preference for the sound of the acoustic/Free Bass combination over the option of Free Bass/anything digital. There is something distinctly pleasurable to me to be able to play piano music on an acoustic accordion, whereas I can play other music that I like on the 8X and enjoy all the sonic benefits of a digital since I have access to both easily enough.

I've said it before, but I think that I am the most perfectly balanced digital/acoustic player ever known, I have no distinct preference of one over the other, Each holds a special place in my heart, neither better, neither worse... lol

I don’t know Jerry, I am no where near your level but feel pretty balanced digitally/acoustically. I play the digital in the house pretty much daily, but played the acoustic at the farmers markets and other events all summer with good benefits all around. I play both on my weekly zooms, depending on my mood. I would not part with either.

 

[dak]

I am intimately familiar with the difference, I own them both systems:

For me, it has nothing to do with the internal workings, but rather because the feel of the Roland is very uncomfortable to me. I started on the MIII system in 1973 (50 years ago, holy crap, that makes me feel so old... LOL), and choose to stick with that today and the spacing and placement of the buttons on the Roland gives me craps after a few minutes of use, it's no more difficult than that.

The difference for you may actually be that of a separate MIII compared to a converter? Because all of the acoustic instruments you show have a separate 3-row MIII (far on the inside unless it is an MIII-only instrument) instead of being able to switch the chord buttons to a 4-row MIII on the outside.

Another one of my idiosyncracies is that even if I equally enjoy a digital and acoustic, I have a strong personal preference for the sound of the acoustic/Free Bass combination over the option of Free Bass/anything digital. There is something distinctly pleasurable to me to be able to play piano music on an acoustic accordion, whereas I can play other music that I like on the 8X and enjoy all the sonic benefits of a digital since I have access to both easily enough.

I do agree that the appeal of playing piano music with the help of a free bass on an electronic accordion feels a bit pointless. But I wouldn't be able to say just why.

 

[JerryPH]

I don’t know Jerry, I am no where near your level but feel pretty balanced digitally/acoustically. I play the digital in the house pretty much daily, but played the acoustic at the farmers markets and other events all summer with good benefits all around. I play both on my weekly zooms, depending on my mood. I would not part with either.

I hear you!

To be fair, I meant that once you start to push things. Look at people like Cory Pesaturo... he is 90% digital and 10% acoustic. Doesn't mean he cannot play acoustic, it means he leans far more on the side of the digital and exploits more of the sonic options of the digital.

I'd say that I use way more of the digital options than even he does (after all I use arrangers and more varied sounds and also do some programming, something he NEVER does, he uses a straight 7X with 100% factory settings just so that he can use other people's 7X when he cannot bring his and not be penalized).

If you can play 200 songs and play them the same on either acoustic or digital, thats balanced for sure... but if you can push things that the other side cannot, and THEN say you are unable to choose a favorite and love both equally, thats where I am coming from... I am at peace and comfortable using either and if you ask me which is better, I won't be able to answer you... I can tell you which is better at SOME things, but then have to give the counter to it on the other side, that's what I was trying to say.

Basically, I'd find it hard to live without either and if one was taken away from me, I would be looking to replace it immediately. If you lost all your acoustic accordions tomorrow, would you feel the same or could you say "hey I can live without them for a year until someone brings in another acoustic for me to buy/repair", or would you hop on a plane to Castelfidardo and get another Piatenese?

 

[Tom]

I hear you!

To be fair, I meant that once you start to push things. Look at people like Cory Pesaturo... he is 90% digital and 10% acoustic. Doesn't mean he cannot play acoustic, it means he leans far more on the side of the digital and exploits more of the sonic options of the digital.

I'd say that I use way more of the digital options than even he does (after all I use arrangers and more varied sounds and also do some programming, something he NEVER does, he uses a straight 7X with 100% factory settings just so that he can use other people's 7X when he cannot bring his and not be penalized).

If you can play 200 songs and play them the same on either acoustic or digital, thats balanced for sure... but if you can push things that the other side cannot, and THEN say you are unable to choose a favorite and love both equally, thats where I am coming from... I am at peace and comfortable using either and if you ask me which is better, I won't be able to answer you... I can tell you which is better at SOME things, but then have to give the counter to it on the other side, that's what I was trying to say.

Well, you know me Jerry, I don’t push things. I’m fortunate to have a few nice sets in the Roland and so am fine with the sounds without programming. For the millionth time, for many of us, it’s the volume knob that makes the difference. I can play while my family sleeps. I’ll probably never have 200 songs, but my goal is 4 hours by May which will take all my available time, no time for the fancy stuff.

 

[JerryPH]

For the millionth time, for many of us, it’s the volume knob that makes the difference. I can play while my family sleeps. I’ll probably never have 200 songs

1. I think that you are selling yourself short, I don't know about 200 songs, but I bet you can EASILY beat 4 hours by the time the market opens next year! You consistently set your personal goals and meet or beat them.
2. I understand the reason for WHY the 4X is good for you, but I was just talking about balance vs preferences. For example, if I had to do what you are doing (and again kudos to you, this is something that I am NOT doing but perhaps should?), I'd have to have BOTH digital and acoustic accordions with me, because I would have songs that would be best tailored to one or the other. Advantage or curse, you decide... haha!

 

[Tom]

1. I think that you are selling yourself short, I don't know about 200 songs, but I bet you can EASILY beat 4 hours by the time the market opens next year! You consistently set your personal goals and meet or beat them.
2. I understand the reason for WHY the 4X is good for you, but I was just talking about balance vs preferences. For example, if I had to do what you are doing (and again kudos to you, this is something that I am NOT doing but perhaps should?), I'd have to have BOTH digital and acoustic accordions with me, because I would have songs that would be best tailored to one or the other. Advantage or curse, you decide... haha!

Thanks Jerry! No, it will not be easy but I can do it! I’m kind of slow at learning and internalizing songs. I’ve been working on adding Kesh Jig and St. Anne’s reel for several weeks now among all of the life. Just about there for recording. I haven’t been able to join or get a band going here but I am trying to get my son to learn bass by telling him he can have all the tips at the 15 - 20 markets next summer. I probably won’t bring the Roland but might bring a guitar for a little singing. He’s into metal and prog rock so it could get interesting since I want him to play music he likes too. We’ll see how (if) it goes….

 

[John M]

On the Acoustic Vs. Digital accordion. I need variety. This is my typical day:
- Practice on my 8X
- Usually “Tweek” some sound or change a tone or two on Banks 1 thru 4, with the PC Editor that I use regularly.
-Go outside. Depending on the season – cut grass, cut & split fire wood, blow leaves, snow, etc. – fix what’s broke around the house/farm equipment.

I need a similar variety with my accordion. There is no way I could ever get the variety of sounds/tones out of any acoustic accordion that I can with my 8X. Yes, there may be a tone on my acoustic accordion, that I like and cannot exactly duplicate on the 8X. Or that “key click” & distortion that I can get on my B3 when I push the Leslie tube amp hard. For me, this variety far outweighs a particular sound that I cannot exactly duplicate on my 8X. The 8X sounds/tones are close enough. – Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

That is the owner’s manual.

In the cae of the 1x/1xb, that’s the only manual, unless you’re looking for a service manual, which isn’t generally available to the public.

 

[Rosie C]

For the millionth time, for many of us, it’s the volume knob that makes the difference. I can play while my family sleeps.

this was the simple reason we swapped our baby grand piano for a digital piano - there are lots of reasons to prefer one or the other - but being able to turn it down or wear headphones is just so useful. That said, I've not had any urge to get a Roland accordion yet!

 

[Chris Laarman]

this was the simple reason we swapped our baby grand piano for a digital piano - there are lots of reasons to prefer one or the other - but being able to turn it down or wear headphones is just so useful. That said, I've not had any urge to get a Roland accordion yet!

Digressing further: your reply remind me of Beethoven as enacted by Monty Python.

 

[Ventura]

lol

while this now ancient history has been fully explained and discussed
here in the forum and elsewhere, the notion that you would think
a piece of (by definition) propaganda (a press release) would definitively
present any kind of actual or even remotely factual information on the
matter is worth a smile

truly, you need to do a LOT more research and investigation
than this before you personally can expect to make a definitive
statement about V-Accordion production a decade removed..
time and market conditions do not stand still, and there has been
a fair amount of evidence suggesting some changes are currently in play,
for which there has not as yet been anything definitive let into
the public view that we can point to as a clear path forward

it is not like mere words can build a V-Accordion, so underlying
consideration of the physical requirements, tooling, board and
component sourcing investment and other worldwide logistics
must be appreciated and considered