C-System Cavagnolo on Ebay

[Glug]

Just a heads up:  there's a Cavagnolo 4 row C-System 120 bass (3+3  I think) CBA on ebay in "opened but never used" condition.

ONE DAY LEFT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cavagnol...405018?hash=item3fe2e20d5a:g:rGIAAOSwX09e2472


I was thinking of bidding when it was £150 this morning but it's now £500 and that's too much for me given I can't actually play CBA

I'm fairly sure it's a Cavagnolo Orchestre 5 /120, which are £7000 new or £1500 ish used.

https://cavagnolo.com/en/accordeon/orchestre-5/

 

[maugein96]

Just a heads up:  there's a Cavagnolo 4 row C-System 120 bass (3+3  I think) CBA on ebay in "opened but never used" condition.

ONE DAY LEFT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cavagnol...405018?hash=item3fe2e20d5a:g:rGIAAOSwX09e2472


I was thinking of bidding when it was £150 this morning but it's now £500 and that's too much for me given I can't actually play CBA

I'm fairly sure it's a Cavagnolo Orchestre 5 /120, which are £7000 new or £1500 ish used.

https://cavagnolo.com/en/accordeon/orchestre-5/

Hi Glug,

It's a 3x3, but the "demo" was such that I couldn't work out whether it was swing tuned or not. Sounds as though it might be. 

Looks like an Orchestre 5 right enough, which is basically the same as the Vedette 5 but without the tone chamber, so it is consequently a bit lighter. It is also configured similar to their "Manouche" model, with the only real difference being a different body shell.  

B system is, or was, more usual in The Netherlands, so somebody might get lucky, but I would guess it will probably go for nearer €3000.

It doesn't look as though it has seen much use, so it could conceivably top that. It is listed as an ex-demo. Depends how desperate the store is to get rid of it. 

Thanks for letting us know. 10 years ago I might have bid myself, but I'm now "accordioned up" in my old age.

 

[Glug]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I did a fair bit of research while it was at an intersting price.
I should try CBA at some point and for £300 or less this would have done to give it a try.

One of the adds I spotted said around 9.1kg but I've no idea if that is accurate.

I'll update with the finishing price tomorrow.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I did a fair bit of research while it was at an intersting price.
I should try CBA at some point and for £300 or less this would have done to give it a try.

One of the adds I spotted said around 9.1kg but I've no idea if that is accurate.

I'll update with the finishing price tomorrow.

Glug,

Current Orchestre model weighs in at 10.3 kg, and starts from €8000. I have a Vedette 5 with the tone chamber and it's about 12.5 kg. Quite a lot of weight for an LMM, but the treble button action is the best of any accordion I've ever owned. Just a word of caution about Cavagnolos. The bass side has 5 voices, and can be a bit overpowering. To those of us used to other French spec accordions with only 4 voices in the bass side, they feel a bit unwieldy until you get used to the extra weight. The treble side of Cavas is known for subtlety rather than volume. 

On the plus side the Orchestre and Vedette 5 have no fewer than 56 playable treble buttons. The bottom button in the 4th row is C, but it doesn't appear on the first row. 

If French sounds are your bag, Cavagnolo could be the make to go for, but if your tastes are more eclectic, you may be as well to look elsewhere. 

The other "big" French maker, Maugein, packs a bit more power into the treble side (they are louder than Cavas), and as most of their models only have a 3 or 4 voice bass, they are more forgiving if you are not a whizz kid on the bass side. 

Not all French boxes are 3/3 and 2/4 is becoming (slightly) more common these days.

 

[Glug]

It went for 843 euro (£ 756), so somebody got a good deal.

It was still £500 with 90 secs to go, then the 'professional' buyers jumped in.

 

[maugein96]

It went for 843 euro (£ 756), so somebody got a good deal.

It was still £500 with 90 secs to go, then the 'professional' buyers jumped in.

A very good deal, indeed.

I had a closer look at the pics and if it was a demo model there was a bit of wear on the bass keyboard above the buttons. I don't think it was very new, but even so I was way out with my prediction. 

In France the seller would have got at least twice that price, and probably a fair bit more. 

That's the problem with Ebay bidding. Don't know if they still use those automatic bidding "sniping" apps that wait until the last second or two before "sniping" just as the listing ends. I used to bid on old bus stuff and the number of times I've gone to pay for something then discovered I'd been outbid in the last millisecond was very annoying. 

These days if it's not "buy it now" I just don't bother. 

There's a guy in Edinburgh selling a nice looking Piermaria CBA. It's an Italian "Internazionale" spec, and the only thing that would put me off it is that it will undoubtedly have strong Scottish musette tuning. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIERMARI...839463?hash=item3b37a82f27:g:E98AAOSwc4FdXV~1

Mind you at that price with a tone chamber it would be worth considering, but I'd want that musette tuned down to 18 cents max, which would cost a few hundred extra. Still a bit on the dear side for some, but there won't be many of those around in the UK.

 

[losthobos]

I'm guilty of bidding in the last ten seconds, find if you don't you just end up bumping up the price for someone else... Some you win some you lose..but at least you don't get caught up in a bidding war...
Cava didn't look new to me either and i can't say i liked its tone much either surprisingly... Decided to stick fast to my Piermaria with a little advice from John... Grass isn't always greener with a new box... Better to develop better skills.. 
There is a Crucianelli / piermaria 3x3 on fleabay at mo for 300 or best offer... Could be bargain for someone willing to take gamble... Outside horizantal bottom row of bass button look a bit sketch though...

 

[maugein96]

I'm guilty of bidding in the last ten seconds, find if you don't you just end up bumping up the price for someone else... Some you win some you lose..but at least you don't get caught up in a bidding war...
Cava didn't look new to me either and i can't say i liked its tone much either surprisingly... Decided to stick fast to my Piermaria with a little advice from John... Grass isn't always greener with a new box... Better to develop better skills.. 
There is a Crucianelli / piermaria 3x3 on fleabay at mo for 300 or best offer... Could be bargain for someone willing to take gamble... Outside horizantal bottom row of bass button look a bit sketch though...

Best not to bid early as you say, as you can end up putting yourself out of the running. 

The Crucianelli on Ebay just goes to show what's lying around here in the UK. The Piermaria badge is indicative of the fact it is a top of the range model, and I may well have taken a gamble on it a few years ago, despite the cosmetic issues. Those bass buttons are a bit of a worry, and a seller with zero rating does not inspire confidence.

 

[donn]

 The treble side of Cavas is known for subtlety rather than volume. 

I think this one suffered a lot in the recording. Mine is apparently the same model, though likely of a different era, and I recognize a resemblance it only in the picture.

 

[Glug]

Yep, the sample videos have terrible audio, plus the guy can't play CBA beyond a basic chord.
It's a Dutch/German ebay seller I monitor: posts new 7 day auctions every Sunday evening.

It's much better to work out what the exact model is and find a video on youtube.

 

[maugein96]

Yep, the sample videos have terrible audio, plus the guy can't play CBA beyond a basic chord.
It's a Dutch/German ebay seller I monitor: posts new 7 day auctions every Sunday evening.

It's much better to work out what the exact model is and find a video on youtube.

Glug,

Even then the tuning in the clip may not correspond to the model offered for sale. That Orchestre 5 could have been factory tuned to any one of 10 recognised current French tunings, with scope for slight to significant variation on all of them, and it would take a very good ear to detect which one you were listening to on a You Tube clip. For example a French accordion listed as "accordage musette" could be anywhere between about 12 and 24 cents sharp on the high M reeds. 

Check this link for a list (in French) :-

https://www.mon-accordeon.com/principe-accordage

 

[Glug]

Yep, agreed it wouldn't tell me anything about the tremolo tuning.

But Cavagnolos have been described as having their own particular sound and I wanted to check if that was something I could live with.

It's a real shame that vendor doesn't demonstrate the sound better, but they do usually put around 50 boxes up each Sunday.

 

[maugein96]

Yep, agreed it wouldn't tell me anything about the tremolo tuning.

But Cavagnolos have been described as having their own particular sound and I wanted to check if that was something I could live with.

It's a real shame that vendor doesn't demonstrate the sound better, but they do usually put around 50 boxes up each Sunday.

In days gone by the big name Cava players tended to use LMMH Vedette 10s with the bassoon and piccolo reeds each in separate tone chambers. When the piccolo reeds in their tone chamber were added to the MM in what is known as "Celeste 3 voix" they added a new dimension to the Cava sound and intensified it. Best not to worry about that, unless you are prepared to spend serious money on a big Vedette 10.  

The Cava sound is rather the Marmite of the accordion world, and even a lot of French players didn't like it. One member on here who plays three voice Scottish musette described the sound as something like a wasp buzzing in a plastic bottle. 

I would have to say that unless you are capable of playing tunes with a fair amount of embellishments, the Cava can be a bit of a challenge. They can and do sound pretty choked out in the more straightforward musette standards, unless of course your name is Eric Bouvelle. 



That particular Orchestre 5 box is a fairly recent "New Tech" effort which I believe uses a sort of celluloid body shell. Purists say it spoils the real Cava sound, but I'm 67 years of age and I cannot tell the difference. Cava MM sound is up to about 00.24. When he breaks into the paso he is on "plein joux" LMM. Bando LM for the Tango, and you should get the bassoon and single flute when he uses them. There are only 5 register combinations on a typical French LMM accordion, and he is struggling a bit to select the correct ones in the clip. There is no tone chamber on that instrument, and IMHO it doesn't need one, at least not when he plays it. He has actually never been one of my favourites, as he has a rather jerky delivery, which has admittedly calmed down a bit over the years. He was a pupil of Maurice Larcange, who would have cut his right thumb off if he had used it that often under his tuition.

 

[Glug]

I would have to say that unless you are capable of playing tunes with a fair amount of embellishments, the Cava can be a bit of a challenge. They can and do sound pretty choked out in the more straightforward musette standards, unless of course your name is Eric Bouvelle.​

Yep, I saw several Eric Bouvelle clips.​

I can't say I'm a fan: I don't really like the 'play all the notes possible' style.  So maybe the Cava wasn't my cup of tea anyway ​

The 'New Tech' boxes are carbon fibre: see https://cavagnolo.com/en/accordeon/manouche-newtech/

I should probably have tried for https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Curtini-...rdt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557.[/LEFT]

It could be a bit of a dog but I could probably fix it.  It's got weird treble registers too.​

 

[maugein96]

I would have to say that unless you are capable of playing tunes with a fair amount of embellishments, the Cava can be a bit of a challenge. They can and do sound pretty choked out in the more straightforward musette standards, unless of course your name is Eric Bouvelle.​

Yep, I saw several Eric Bouvelle clips.​

I can't say I'm a fan: I don't really like the 'play all the notes possible' style.  So maybe the Cava wasn't my cup of tea anyway ​

The 'New Tech' boxes are carbon fibre: see https://cavagnolo.com/en/accordeon/manouche-newtech/

I should probably have tried for https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Curtini-...rdt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557.[/LEFT]

It could be a bit of a dog but I could probably fix it.  It's got weird treble registers too.​

​

Unfortunately, most demos tend to feature the most flamboyant players to better promote the instruments concerned. 

Most French musette CBA players do tend to jazz it up a bit if their technique allows for it, and I cannot play any tune straight off the score without adding a good few "add-ins". All those extra notes sort of come with the territory, so perhaps French musette is not really your bag.  

The Cortini looks like it was a decent box, although fixing any issues it has could be a big project. Some of the buttons at the top and bottom of the treble side will be "dummies" to even up the symetrics in the 5 rows. That is common with Italian CBAs, and the broken button at the bottom of row 3 probably serves no real purpose.​