Bellows control

[george garside]

:tup:
g

 

[Deleted member 48]

Video with fragments from the april 2016 accordion masterclass / stage with the duo Roman Jbanov (he plays B-system) and Dominique Emorine (she plays C-system)
http://www.ringtv.be/video/accordeonstage-groot-bijgaarden

Demonstration of one of the possible forms of bellows shakes.
The masterclass was for young accordion students.

 

[KLR]

It is also possible to feather a change of bellows direction with a quick dab on the air button!

That is very accordion specific. On a bandoneon or concertina, this is a common technique (one that albeit makes regular accordion players frown and ask why they cannot play music when pushing as well as pulling... lol), but on accordions like mine for example, its physically impossible. My hand is so deep that it is not the wrist that is against the bass strap, but mid forearm (visualize the thumb touching the middle of the Stradella bass area). Unless I could grow the thumb an extra 10 or more inches and bend it back enough to touch the forearm while playing, this technique is never going to happen, so I have to depend on more traditional techniques.

I read somewhere that Art Van Damme would use the chord buttons to control the bellows. Maybe this involved opening a batch of them ever so slightly without actually sounding anything, to give the effect of having the air button open; or he would just sound a chord/bass note/bass notes strategically to get the bellows to move faster. These are just guesses, perhaps some of the jazzers here know more about this.

I also read how, when he was learning, Art would double solos on Benny Goodman records - moving the bellows with every note. And some quote like When youre really in agony, youre starting to get somewhere. :lol:

 

[JeffJetton]

I am teaching myself with the Palmer-Hughes books. No where is it mentioned (unless I missed it) that bass notes should be played staccato.

In book 1, page 7 and again on page 9: Make these notes short!. And on page 10: Make basses and chords short!.

They dont actually use the term staccato there--probably because they wait until book 3 to formally introduce the concept and notation for it. But staccato is indeed what they mean by short.

Or, as you often hear, play as if the bass buttons are burning hot.

 

[JerryPH]

I wonder who made the rule that all bass has to be played staccato (short), leggerio (medium), or legato (long)? Why not just use what sounds right for the needs of a particular passage?

I understand that when learning one needs to follow the advice of a book, but to globally accept staccato style bass as the right and only way to play for all circumstances... nope, not floating my boat.

 

[Thomas N]

It is also possible to feather a change of bellows direction with a quick dab on the air button!

That is very accordion specific. On a bandoneon or concertina, this is a common technique (one that albeit makes regular accordion players frown and ask why they cannot play music when pushing as well as pulling... lol), but on accordions like mine for example, its physically impossible. My hand is so deep that it is not the wrist that is against the bass strap, but mid forearm (visualize the thumb touching the middle of the Stradella bass area). Unless I could grow the thumb an extra 10 or more inches and bend it back enough to touch the forearm while playing, this technique is never going to happen, so I have to depend on more traditional techniques.

I read somewhere that Art Van Damme would use the chord buttons to control the bellows. Maybe this involved opening a batch of them ever so slightly without actually sounding anything, to give the effect of having the air button open; or he would just sound a chord/bass note/bass notes strategically to get the bellows to move faster. These are just guesses, perhaps some of the jazzers here know more about this.

I also read how, when he was learning, Art would double solos on Benny Goodman records - moving the bellows with every note. And some quote like When youre really in agony, youre starting to get somewhere. :lol:[/quote]

There was a lot of information out there about Art. Some of it true and a lot of it false. I had heard that none of the solos were his. They were all perfect note-for-note transcriptions of Benny Goodman. Art was said to have performed them exactly the same every time. Now most if not all jazz performers improvise and never play the same solo the same way twice. If you listen to Frank Marocco youll hear very similar phrasing in most solos but they are always improvised and always different. I would listen to several different recordings of Arts work and the same song sounded exactly the same with the same solos on multiple recordings. It was bizarre. I also had heard that he had to read music to play - something extremely rare among accomplished jazz musicians. Sometimes they might have a sheet with just the changes for reference on songs they hadnt played often but they almost always played from memory. Most performances of Art that are on video youll see a music stand and notice that hes reading music. And this is on songs that he has played literally thousands of times. Maybe it was a comfort thing. Ive also seen some performances of his with no music at all.

Im not sure what I think at this point. I do know that he is my favorite accordionist artist bar none. His phrasing, speed, execution and just flat-out ability to swing are unmatched. I like Dick Continuo as a pure performer, I like Frank Marocco as a brilliant artist, but Art Van Damme will never be matched to my ears.

I do know that when he was young he would often practice for 8 hours per day. Thats some serious dedication.

 

[KLR]

Thanks Thomas, very interesting. Id notice the sheet music stands and wondered what that was all about. I like a good fakebook too, and sometimes have to have dots to remember some of the more arcane chord progressions, and pretty much any lyric, but Art seemed to really be packing around orchestral scores. He was an NBC staff musician with classical training as Im sure you know.

You could prove/disprove the idea of him copying Bennys solos easy enough. I found an old Google Groups discussion which may be where I heard about him using the air button as he played, and using the chord buttons to control the bellows too: Art van Dammes left hand technique - Google Groups

Ive seen Art many times and listened very carefully to his many
recordings and he frequently uses the bellows air button both live and
recording. He also uses an all fingers technique on the LH to allow
his bellows to give him the dynamics hes looking for on his RH. Art
did this more on the later MPS West Germany recordings than in his
earlier recordings from the 50s.

Some of the people on that thread really praised Art to the skies for his rare command of dynamics.

Since you mentioned him I thought Id look up Marocco on YouTube and noticed someone recently put up a great private video of him playing solo at an accordion camp: Frank Marocco home video with Gary Blair - YouTube

 

[JeffJetton]

I wonder who made the rule that all bass has to be played staccato (short), leggerio (medium), or legato (long)? Why not just use what sounds right for the needs of a particular passage?

I understand that when learning one needs to follow the advice of a book, but to globally accept staccato style bass as the right and only way to play for all circumstances... nope, not floating my boat.

Well, I agree with you, but I dont think anyone actually has made that rule. Taken as a whole, the PH books arent saying that you should always play staccato bass. Only that, when youre starting out learning, short basses are the ideal approach. Id imagine its better to learn staccato as the default and later emphasize longer basses where appropriate, than to go the other way around.

Also, beginning students will tend to apply the same articulation to both hands (play legato bass when focusing on legato RH and playing the RH staccato when focusing on staccato LH). Forcing articulation independence early on is a good idea. It is not intuitive, which is probably why it gets stressed so much.

Finally, that sort of bass is generally idiomatic for the style of the music used in those early books anyway (folk/popular, almost all oom-pah, no bass runs, etc.)

 

[JerryPH]

Well, I agree with you, but I dont think anyone actually has made that rule. Finally, that sort of bass is generally idiomatic for the style of the music used in those early books anyway (folk/popular, almost all oom-pah, no bass runs, etc.)

I was replying more tongue in cheek, I am sure there is no such rule out there... lol
PH stuff was pretty good when used in conjunction with other books, I enjoyed completing them when I was a kid. If I was a teacher today, they would definitely be part of the curriculum, but never be just the sole source of instructional materials.

Are they still even available?

 

[george garside]

the only 'rule' for playing the bass is to LISTEN carefully throughout the proceedings to the brilliant or horrible or anything in between rhythm and overall sound that you are making with the bass and to do something about it is more on the horrible than the brilliant side

It can also be helpful and to get a second opinion and perhaps a few pointers on how to improve ones already brilliant performance!

george

 

[JeffJetton]

Are they still even available?

Yup. Still in print and widely available on Amazon, SheetMusicPlus, etc. They still have the same retro illustrations and everything. (At least one tweak of song title to keep up with the times.)

Ive looked at the Santorella series and the Galliano book, which have their merits. But I still think PH is the one to beat, and its what I currently teach out of. Although its not perfect (few methods are). I do supplement it a bit, scribble in alternate fingerings in spots, etc.

(Okay, sorry for the thread sidetrack folks! )

 

[Howie]

As an ex-pianist I immediately realised that for me the bellows, rather than playing the notes, was going to be my No. 1 challenge (and yes, No. 2 is indeed the bass).

This comment describes my situation exactly. I found this thread because I discovered that while I thought the bass would be a challenge (and those buttons are) its bellows control that is my biggest problem.
The situation is compounded by my tendency to use too much air on the bass notes, I can only get about 2 bars of a waltz before having to change direction!
I know I should try to hit those buttons as if they are red hot - I just wish my left hand would obey me

 

[george garside]

those who are following the classical route with exams and grades will have a teacher who should be able to sort out any bellwos problems.

The great many who are teaching themselves , maybe ex piano or electic keyboard, working from a tutor book or just doing their best to get the hang of it should keep in mind that it is not sensible to try to learn a technique and a new tune at the same time. So for a tune that most ?? wil know and which is fairly heavy in air consumption try Daisy Daisy (daisy bell) as a waltz with nice steady um pa pa on the bass. ( or any other tune you know very well and experiment/give Youself a lesson/practice until you can both reverse the bellows smoothly and not rune out of air whilst putting in plenty of dynamics ( volume changes) and half decent phrasing.

Better still record it on your laptop and then listen critically before having another go to improve it etc etc etc

george