Battery amplifiers for outdoor use with accordions

[Mr turtle]

I play a Roland fr-3x both for busking and doing gigs.

While busking out in the street I use the Roland cube street ex.

I started out with the basic cube street which retails for around 250 pounds, is a very loud 5 Watts has reverb and delay along with 3 band eq and four digital effects.

This amp has 2 6.5 inch speakers, powers on 6aa batteries which last about 16 hours.

I currently use the cube street ex which gives a maximum of 50 Watts using 8aa batteries.

This amp has 2 8 inch woofers and 2 2 inch tweeters. Sounds great for getting above the noise of a busy town centre.

The amp can be used up to 50 Watts or limited to either 25 Watts or eco mode 10 Watts.

At 50 Watts you can power for 4 hours on 8aa batteries, 10 hours at 25, or about 20 hours at 10 Watts. It has plenty of inputs for mic guitar/acccordion/keyboard whatever you want as well as stereo ins and lots of other options like a stereo link so you can run 2 amps as a full stereo pa.

I usually limit it to the 10 watt eco mode for busking and it’s plenty loud enough, but If I’m doing small gigs i will use at 50 watts to save lugging my stage pa around.

It’s priced around the 450-475 pound mark and in my opinion worth every penny.

Alternatively Roland also make the kc110 keyboard amp which will give 20 Watts outputnon 8aa batteries or 30 Watts on mains power, but the speakers are a little smaller.

Hope this enlightens you as to a few options available.

 

[Keymn]

I dont think the complaints factor is all that important. High volume is like a condom... it is better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it.

This year I have seen more accordions busking than ever... perhaps a half-dozen in the hallways of the underground metro. Even in these characteristically very echo-filled and relatively quiet areas, the amplified buskers always sound better than the acoustic ones and to get a decent sound for the unamplified buskers, you have to be within 10 feet of them, unlike the amplified ones where you can get decent sound from 50-75 feet away... and theyre not all that much louder.

Yesterday I heard a pair of unamplified classical guitars playing away, and there were a LOT of people moving around. From 15 feet away I could not even make out the melody!

Outdoors in a city center, activity, traffic and more people create a much louder environment and on top of that, musical sounds tend to fade a lot faster and even a small amp in the 20-30 watt range would be greatly helpful.

An amp would definitely be a good thing, even if not used at full volume. Even with my 8X, I would prefer additional external amplification unless I was in some very small cramped area.

My experience playing a VAccordion with amplification>when I was playing on stage at the German Restaurant (whom had a House pa), I turned off my accordion speakers to better judge the volume in the room. Then if I would stroll out, maybe play a happy birthday, I would turn them back on. They had house speakers on stage and throughout the restaurant...with accordion speakers off...I would Listen off the stage speakers, this monitored The sound to better balance with the vocals.
For busking, I think the VAccordion with the self contained amp/speaker is plenty volume. To be a good busker, I think, is to play with showmanship, with people circling around you in close range. Acoustic accordion, maybe a small cube amp. Working the bellows would wear me out. That is my vision!

 

[Geronimo]

For busking, I think the VAccordion with the self contained amp/speaker is plenty volume. To be a good busker, I think, is to play with showmanship, with people circling around you in close range. Acoustic accordion, maybe a small cube amp. Working the bellows would wear me out. That is my vision!

Well, I think the point of busking is not to make it hard for people to escape your play but to lure them within throwing distance of your hat.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Would there be any advantage in having an amplifier with bluetooth connectivity?

 

[Keymn]

Would there be any advantage in having an amplifier with bluetooth connectivity?

Many newer battery amps have Bluetooth it built in. As far as I know, only to connect to iPhone or iPad apps.
This is my favorite choice:
http://mackie.com/products/freeplay

 

[kimric]

Not sure if they are available in europe but Pignose makes some good portable battery amps and have been doing so for more than 30 yrs. Usually have them in my shop.

 

[Keymn]

Not sure if they are available in europe but Pignose makes some good portable battery amps and have been doing so for more than 30 yrs. Usually have them in my shop.

I always questioned how Accordion sounds on these smaller amps. I usually see a acoustic guitarist plugging with mic when they promote video.these items. It just seems an accordion has more frequency range to contend with. If you have them in shop, a demo would be great! EQ settings and Built in effects is a plus too. As for me, I would need one for singing more then amplifying my accordion. As I said earlier in this thread, I have a Behringer B205 for years (not battery powered), and use it frequently when I do a gig just to plug in mic. Accordion usually loud enough, fr4x, but think an acoustic may need slight amplification? Otherwise, you may have to pump bellows, which is a strain on us older guys.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...zl_WZ9L8dzOrMBvq0xm5TX5K3QITZOsxoCeQ4QAvD_BwE

 

[Geronimo]

Accordion usually loud enough, fr4x, but think an acoustic may need slight amplification? Otherwise, you may have to pump bellows, which is a strain on us older guys.

Playing quietly but with significant amplification will make you quite prone to feedback.

 

[jozz]

Would there be any advantage in having an amplifier with bluetooth connectivity?

do you have an accordion with bluetooth? :mrgreen:

 

[Keymn]

Would there be any advantage in having an amplifier with bluetooth connectivity?

do you have an accordion with bluetooth? :mrgreen:

If Bluetooth built in an accordion, would be an awesome upgrade. Just see it in the Roland newer digital pianos.
http://www.roland.ca/products/f-140r/
For me, only accomplished with the Yamaha bt hardware. Which works well with my fr4x. Other brands available too.

Not much excitement about this, it seems? But, I see it coming? Since iOS apps may revolutionize the music industry.
Amplification with Bluetooth technology is a plus too.

 

[Keymn]

Would there be any advantage in having an amplifier with bluetooth connectivity?

do you have an accordion with bluetooth? :mrgreen:

Bluetooth accordion?, would be an awesome upgrade. But just to connect IOS like the Roland newer digital pianos application. Roland accordions are capable of receiving control change message to change preset registers from certain IOS apps. But this was discussed in another thread.
http://www.roland.ca/products/f-140r/
Not much excitement about this, it seems? But, I see it coming? Since iOS apps may revolutionize the music industry.
Amplifier with Bluetooth technology? I would use it to play break music from my iPad.

 

[jozz]

Anyone here have experience with the Fender passport mini or the Laney audiohub freestyle? As they are both designed for acoustic ranges and vocal, I sense they should in theory be allright for accordion?

 

[debra]

...
At 50 Watts you can power for 4 hours on 8aa batteries, 10 hours at 25, or about 20 hours at 10 Watts.
...

Some posts here are a bit optimistic about power. (This is just an example quote.)
A rechargeable AA battery contains about 2500mAh at 1.2 Volts. That is 3Wh. No matter how you combine the 8 batteries they together contain 24Wh, meaning 24 Watts for 1 hour.
When you are busking you tend to play loud most of the time, but if 8 AA batteries last 4 hours it means that on average the amp is using only 6 Watts. Even if it is incredibly energy efficient it cannot be producing more than 5 Watts continuously for these 4 hours.
Luckily for us, with a reasonably efficient speaker 5 Watts is already quite loud!

 

[Geronimo]

...
At 50 Watts you can power for 4 hours on 8aa batteries, 10 hours at 25, or about 20 hours at 10 Watts.
...

Some posts here are a bit optimistic about power. (This is just an example quote.)
A rechargeable AA battery contains about 2500mAh at 1.2 Volts. That is 3Wh.

I dont see any of them talking about rechargeable. Lets assume at least affordable (we are talking musicians here) and we end up with Alkalines for about 4Wh.

No matter how you combine the 8 batteries they together contain 24Wh, meaning 24 Watts for 1 hour.

Well, they are talking music power presumably. You know, the kind of speakers specified as 2400W music power that take their operating power from a USB port.

When you are busking you tend to play loud most of the time, but if 8 AA batteries last 4 hours it means that on average the amp is using only 6 Watts. Even if it is incredibly energy efficient it cannot be producing more than 5 Watts continuously for these 4 hours.
Luckily for us, with a reasonably efficient speaker 5 Watts is already quite loud!

5W of acoustic energy would actually be very loud. Thats actually a problem with specifying the RMS of a powered speaker: strictly speaking it just tells you how much power reaches the speaker, not how much comes out in the form of acoustic power rather than heat. Still better than the fantasy music power numbers of course.

The problem with efficient speakers is that they arent dampened much so they ring. Perfectly fine for guitar, not as great for vocals or keyboards. HiFi speakers are dampened a whole lot. A 50W guitar speaker will blast out a whole lot more loudness than a 50W HiFi speaker box.

 

[JerryPH]

5W of acoustic energy would actually be very loud.

True!

I must have been around 12-13 years old when I saw a demonstration where a guy connected a watt meter to an amplifier and then showed us the difference between 1 watt of volume vs 10 watts... it was way louder.

The real surprise was when they showed us how little of a volume difference came in the range between 10 watts and 100 watts, a very strong demo that stuck to me even today.

Clean 5-10 watts of sound can sound almost the same as a clean 30-40 watt amp from a bit of distance, and even up close, wed hear it, but I doubt many people would believe that they were hearing a 10 times power increase judging by the volume increases our ear hears.

 

[Geronimo]

5W of acoustic energy would actually be very loud.

True!

I must have been around 12-13 years old when I saw a demonstration where a guy connected a watt meter to an amplifier and then showed us the difference between 1 watt of volume vs 10 watts... it was way louder.

We are talking about different things here. I am talking about acoustic power, you about electric. They differ by the efficiency of the speaker, and basically all speakers are quite inefficient (horn speakers, working against a large acoustic resistance, can be 10 times as efficient as normal speakers but still convert by far most of the electric energy put in into heat).

To put it in perspective: a large pipe organ puts out about 10W of acoustic power (cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_power ). Ill readily admit that Id have guessed even less.

Sirens can be easily cranked by hand and can be intolerably loud. I got a rescue whistle here certainly using less breath than my accordion at full registration and certainly being louder (and make no mistake: an accordion is already much more efficient at turning mechanical energy into sound than a loudspeaker is at doing the same with electric energy, but of course a loudspeaker is a lot more versatile, not requiring a separate air stream interruption resonator for each frequency).

 

[jozz]

This is 7w, i'm currently trying it out. I wanted a box to do everything for me without additional pedals.

The good:
- it has a wonderful reverb builtin, and three inputs which I needed
- also guitar presets, less needed, but nice to shape the sound a bit
- it's tiny, but still has a stand to aim it upwards

The bad:
- it doesn't pickup my Sennheisers very well, I have to crank up the potentios, ended up using a preamp pedal, which I intended to ditch...(the dynamic capsule in my Preciosa it picks up no problem
- AUX in instead of OUT, something I missed reading the reviews...this means I have to use the phones to go to the PA if needed, but then speaker is muted and not useable as monitor...bummer (on top of that PHONES has tiny hiss on it)
- PHONES and AUX 3.5mm instead of 6.5, bummer

We'll try to make it work, but I have my doubts...

 

[Geronimo]

This is 7w, im currently trying it out. I wanted a box to do everything for me without additional pedals.

The good:
- it has a wonderful reverb builtin, and three inputs which I needed
- also guitar presets, less needed, but nice to shape the sound a bit
- its tiny, but still has a stand to aim it upwards

The bad:
- it doesnt pickup my Sennheisers very well, I have to crank up the potentios, ended up using a preamp pedal, which I intended to ditch...(the dynamic capsule in my Preciosa it picks up no problem
- AUX in instead of OUT, something I missed reading the reviews...this means I have to use the phones to go to the PA if needed, but then speaker is muted and not useable as monitor...bummer (on top of that PHONES has tiny hiss on it)

When life gives you lemons: just split the signal out after the preamp pedal.

 

[jozz]

We just just came back from a week in a cabin in the woods with this thing, and I must say it was certainly adaquete as a practice amp. But left me wishing it had a direct out. Anyway, my Bugari bass end became a bit muddy on it, as was to be expected from this size/weight speaker, but then even over the phones out when I recorded it straight from my audio interface it was the same. So what's going on in there?

Then we had this little festival over the weekend and two guys and a guitar trying to reach out over a 100 people crowd inside a tent, which was a total disaster. I offered them at least some amplification with the Fender and two mic's (as it was a 5 minute walk), and they actually could serve a crowd inside a 10 meter radius. :mrgreen:

Although it was highly portable I didn't like what it did to my sound, so back it goes.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Thanks for all your advice. I finally bought the Roland Street Cube at £249. Yesterday, I was in Chester and saw two buskers, both using one and I think I made the right choice.
I can't help feeling that the amp is a little over-engineered for the PA, with all its extra effects that we can't use, but there we are,