AccordionCol
Member
Does anyone here tune by ear?
What is your process?
What is your process?
Aural tuning
- Thread starter AccordionCol
- Start date
- Status
You need to at least start with a reference frequency. Typically tuning then starts with A4 which the ISO standard specifies as 440Hz (but accordion manufacturers have their own standard, not always 440, sometimes 442, sometimes maybe even something else).
You can then start tuning using quints. Each quint (in that octave) should have a slight tremolo: about 1.5 beats per second. If you do this precisely then after 11 quints the 12th quint that ends again with A4 should then also have 1.5 beats per second. After tuning 12 quints you can start tuning all octaves, which should have no beating at all.
The reality of accordion tuning is that measuring the tuning with an app is much less stressful and also more precise. So even though I have learnt how to do tuning by ear I prefer using a tuning app.
You can then start tuning using quints. Each quint (in that octave) should have a slight tremolo: about 1.5 beats per second. If you do this precisely then after 11 quints the 12th quint that ends again with A4 should then also have 1.5 beats per second. After tuning 12 quints you can start tuning all octaves, which should have no beating at all.
The reality of accordion tuning is that measuring the tuning with an app is much less stressful and also more precise. So even though I have learnt how to do tuning by ear I prefer using a tuning app.
AccordionCol
Member
The problem I have with using an app is that... when I tune a section on my bench then put it back in the accordion the results can be drastically different. I then note the required adjustments but it’s sometimes so contrary to what the tuner is telling me when using the bench (sometimes 10c or more and inconsistent from note to note) that I can’t help but question everything.
I’m an experience aural piano tuner so I’m wondering if tuning by ear is a better way to go, but logistically it seems crazy having to constantly remove and reinstall the reed blocks etc... I’m sure (or hoping) there is a better method than I’m imagining.
I’m an experience aural piano tuner so I’m wondering if tuning by ear is a better way to go, but logistically it seems crazy having to constantly remove and reinstall the reed blocks etc... I’m sure (or hoping) there is a better method than I’m imagining.
Here is what you are doing wrong: the "bench" (often called "tuning table") on which you can place a reed block and play notes (using built-in bellows) is intended to check voicing and valves, making sure all notes play well. It is NOT intended to do tuning with. To do tuning you normally place half an accordion on the bench (with a very large opening so the half-accordion just goes over it) and then you play a note, measure the deviation (using an app, or by playing a quint from an already tuned note to the new note), turn the half-accordion over, do filing/scratching, turn over again, measure again, etc.
What I do most often is just write a whole table with all deviations of all reeds, measured while playing the whole accordion. Then I take out the reed blocks, do filing/scratching of all the notes according to the table, then put the accordion back together and measure again.
Under NO circumstances should you do tuning with reed blocks on the bench.
AccordionCol
Member
Ok, thanks. Do you have a photo of the setup you use for tuning so I can see exactly what you mean?
AccordionCol
Member
So iv finally figured out what was fundamentally wrong with what I’m doing. It’s a very novice mistake but an easy one to make for beginners like me, I think. Would anyone like to guess what it was? Definitely relates to your reply Debra
I'm not Paul, but here's what I use. You can make these out of bellows from accordions not worth fixing and a couple of boards. The top is covered in a layer of neoprene rubber foam covered with leather for a good air seal. You'll need different sizes for different sized accordions.
Attachments
![IMG_20221215_002238965[1].jpg](/data/attachments/7/7792-e79ed21fe22f6c8d7ebc2344fea59571.jpg?hash=557SH-IvbI)
This is my setup:
I also have two wooden covers that go over it: one with a small hole for testing one reed (on a reed block) and one with a hole for two reeds.
With a setup like this, if you put a reed block on the "tuning table", you have to remember that when you open the bellows it corresponds to the bellows being (pushed) closed on the accordion, and pushing the bellows closed on the tuning table corresponds to pulling on the accordion.
Only when you place a half-accordion on the tuning table does pulling become pulling and pushing becomes pushing. A rookie mistake...
On the reed block the inside reed is always the "pull" reed and the outside reed the "push" reed.
One more mistake people make is not watching closely that you are tuning the correct note. (When you don't have absolute pitch, watch the tuning app! And be critical as a tuning app may pick up an overtone instead of the real note. When the app says you're tuning say G7 but you are actually at C6 the measurement will be off by about 2 cents.)
boxplayer4000
Prolific poster
Can I return to the person's original question at the the head of this thread?
Yes, you can tune by ear but it will probably take special personal skills and years of practice. The most experienced tuner I knew in my country seldom used a mechanical tuner but relied on his ear. His reputation was world-wide and often tuned instruments from far and near including a lot from North America. Sadly he has passed on but I do remember him telling me that he had learned a lot in the immediate post-war years when he had been posted to Germany.
It's purely academic if an accordion is tuned to 440Hz or anything else because if when faced with a repair you will have to stick to what's going around you anyway (unless you want to re-tune a few hundred reeds).
To AccordionCol I would say unless he's exceptional in the hearing department he would be best to learn to use a tuner which, fortunately, are cheap/free these days and I personally use a very good one on my Android phone.
Yes, you can tune by ear but it will probably take special personal skills and years of practice. The most experienced tuner I knew in my country seldom used a mechanical tuner but relied on his ear. His reputation was world-wide and often tuned instruments from far and near including a lot from North America. Sadly he has passed on but I do remember him telling me that he had learned a lot in the immediate post-war years when he had been posted to Germany.
It's purely academic if an accordion is tuned to 440Hz or anything else because if when faced with a repair you will have to stick to what's going around you anyway (unless you want to re-tune a few hundred reeds).
To AccordionCol I would say unless he's exceptional in the hearing department he would be best to learn to use a tuner which, fortunately, are cheap/free these days and I personally use a very good one on my Android phone.
Last edited:
AccordionCol
Member
Ok awesome, thanks for the reply’s and yes the rookie mistake I was making was the change in air direction from reeds inside the accordion to reeds outside on the tuning table. It’s all making a lot more sense now
AccordionCol
Member
They call me the pigeon
boxplayer4000
Prolific poster
?
AccordionCol
Member
they have amazing hearing
That could be because you are missing a step... are you measuring EACH note, on push and pull, documenting how much it is off? You should be tuning to correct the error factor, not tuning to a precise tone. This is why tuning with an app is so much better.
For example if you are off by 6 cents on a specific note when the note is being played with the reed block is in the accordion, you correct that same specific note with an offset of 6 cents... not trying to tune a reed to an exact pitch when it is taking out of the accordion and the reed block is pulled and on a bench.
You can get a lot closer faster doing it this way than your current way.
The bad news... if you have made ANY other changes (ie: valve change anyone?), you will have to do it more than once if you want a really accurate tune. Also for the sake of best consistency, make sure temp and humidity are as close as possible to the first time for best consistency and results.
Also do not think that a tune is perfect even you did it once and it all checks out... let the accordion settle for a few days or a week, use it and then check it again. It is not unusual for things to go "off" a bit.
Last edited:
boxplayer4000
Prolific poster
JerryPH:
I get, what I feel, are pretty good results by the same method you outline above. ie. measure the 'error' inside, remove the blocks and correct it by the same amount outside. Your observations about consistency in temperature and humidity are also very relevant. I have noticed that recently where we have been making attempts to reduce energy/heating costs and where I have allowed my 'workshop' room's temperature to vary. The 'cold' reeds shorten and speed up.
However, reverting again to the theme of this thread (aural tuning), it is also significant that professional tuners make final adjustments by ear. See videos/pictures of people such as Thierry Benetoux etc. etc. with the assembled treble end of an accordion placed over their bench bellows. Accessing and tuning the reeds in situ presents its own problems.
I get, what I feel, are pretty good results by the same method you outline above. ie. measure the 'error' inside, remove the blocks and correct it by the same amount outside. Your observations about consistency in temperature and humidity are also very relevant. I have noticed that recently where we have been making attempts to reduce energy/heating costs and where I have allowed my 'workshop' room's temperature to vary. The 'cold' reeds shorten and speed up.
However, reverting again to the theme of this thread (aural tuning), it is also significant that professional tuners make final adjustments by ear. See videos/pictures of people such as Thierry Benetoux etc. etc. with the assembled treble end of an accordion placed over their bench bellows. Accessing and tuning the reeds in situ presents its own problems.
- Status
