Are chromatic button accordions faster than piano accordions?

[Ed S]

Well, this is some background we have not had until now. Are you taking lessons, or just sitting in with a band?

We're in the New Hampshire Scottish Music Club. I've been playing semi-seriously for a little over a year, but only really started practicing daily and taking lessons a couple of months ago. I have a lot of piano experience, though, so my right hand is far better than my left, and my left is better than playing both together. I'm really not asking folks for guidance relative to learning speed - as you say, it seems all over the map.

 

[Xiane]

If we get serious about accordions, and not just type random jokes about throwing them, then one can see several areas for accordion development.
1) Walker has already mentioned the technique - I agree it is vital for a good result, and if double straps are allowed, then a "hammer turn" must be one of the best ways to draw inspiration from, regardless of whether it's a PA, CBA or diatonic.
2) It's not just about weight, it is about the ballistic coefficient, which is calculated as:
BC=mass/(drag*cross-sectional area)
You will get better results if the squeezebox flies in a straighter line, and the mass per cross sectional area is maximised. Big yes to double-cassotto boxes and slick aerodynamic curved grilles like a Hohner Morino. Big no to the square Steirische boxes with random stuff sticking out of the casework, generating more drag. Concertinas are too light to go far, and bandoneons are probably the worst, as they are square and have a very large cross-section to weight ratio.

In case we are not going just for distance, or distance & accuracy (like golf for instance), there has to be some weight in the box, otherwise it will get blown off course by sidewind, or, with a very strong headwind it might actually boomerang back into its owner's face.

Alright, then, the serious answer.

Research and study has shown that the melodeon player, much like the feared Balearic slinger of antiquity, can strike a fully-amped, many pedaled, "shredder" dead from 100 meters with a well-slung diatonic melodeon, and then slip away using their mysterious folkways.

Many have thought the huge, heavy, double cassotto accordions of the 1960s beautiful, but obsolete in a modern context. Not so! Larger PAs and CBA should be regarded as crew-served siege instruments, but they remain capable of knocking down castle walls, or disrupting digital communications with a well-aimed heave.

 

[Xiane]

That is exactly the path I went. Quietly learning the fingering on the Roland gave me the assurance I could make the switch and I haven’t regretted anything. It was plenty responsive in the keys but It didn’t feel like a real instrument to me (I never used it in a session). The few times I played with other acoustic players in public I found the internal speakers too weak, but I loved the C-griff system and quickly located my first acoustic CBA (and soon after traded my PA FR4x for the FR4-bx).

Another Portland player! I'm relatively new to it all, but curious about any sort of accordion community in PDX. Any thoughts, gatherings, etc? I play Irish BC currently, but I think I might be a bit obsessed, so will doubtless have more instruments at some point fairly soon.

 

[CC_PDX]

Another Portland player! I'm relatively new to it all, but curious about any sort of accordion community in PDX. Any thoughts, gatherings, etc? I play Irish BC currently, but I think I might be a bit obsessed, so will doubtless have more instruments at some point fairly soon.

Welcome! I went through my own obsession / conversion phase around 2019 after scoring a screaming $175 deal on a mint Petosa SM-100 PA at a garage sale and have been hooked ever since, followed by a flurry of subsequent trades and acquisitions. I've felt a bit like a loner in the PNW wilderness teaching myself to play, but I think there are more of us out there than we realize. I usually play out 4-5 times a week in various capacities, but "Accordion Music" is not my focus, so I haven't gravitated to any accordion-specific groups. There are lots of old-time, contra, Irish, bluegrass, folk, Americana, Quebecois, groups and activities around town where a box fits in beautifully. The Bubbaville site https://bubbaville.org/ (especially their newsletter) is a great resource for finding area meetups, jams, sessions, campouts, and performances.

 

[Xiane]

Welcome! I went through my own obsession / conversion phase around 2019 after scoring a screaming $175 deal on a mint Petosa SM-100 PA at a garage sale and have been hooked ever since, followed by a flurry of subsequent trades and acquisitions. I've felt a bit like a loner in the PNW wilderness teaching myself to play, but I think there are more of us out there than we realize. I usually play out 4-5 times a week in various capacities, but "Accordion Music" is not my focus, so I haven't gravitated to any accordion-specific groups. There are lots of old-time, contra, Irish, bluegrass, folk, Americana, Quebecois, groups and activities around town where a box fits in beautifully. The Bubbaville site https://bubbaville.org/ (especially their newsletter) is a great resource for finding area meetups, jams, sessions, campouts, and performances.

Oh, wow, that IS a screaming deal. I'm not sure you can get a new Petosa T-shirt for that price, normally.

My experience is somewhat similar. In the depths of the pandemic I bought a Saltarelle B/C from an estate consignment place. Not quite your deal, but a good one, as I don't believe the instrument had ever been played, but rather used as decor. Finding a teacher has been difficult, but I decided to just try on my own, and much like a drummer, having the equipment seems to be a big part of joining in, unlike guitars.

Accordion music per se isn't my focus either. I'm now with some guitarists playing Irish music, they're experienced, I'm not. I'm trying to accompany them despite the lack of basses, and occasional difficulty in playing along in some keys they or guitars, like. Not ready to lead yet, but this is a great experience anyway. And their sound definitely benefits from the accordion in the mix.

Let me know where you're playing! I'd love to meet another player(s) here. Probably my road will eventually lead to a CBA, but we'll see.

Please let me know if you come across diatonic stuff around PDX. It's an uphill climb with people seeing prices for instruments in perfect condition and pricing something that's sat in a basement for 30 years the same. So if the price is right, I'm now, for my sins, going to teach myself to tune and repair. Because it generally seems with free reed stuff that good ones aren't cheap and cheap ones aren't good.

(And if you or anyone ever runs across an "Irish American" melodeon, let me know.)

 

[micahcowan]

That is exactly the path I went. Quietly learning the fingering on the Roland gave me the assurance I could make the switch and I haven’t regretted anything. It was plenty responsive in the keys but It didn’t feel like a real instrument to me (I never used it in a session). The few times I played with other acoustic players in public I found the internal speakers too weak, but I loved the C-griff system and quickly located my first acoustic CBA (and soon after traded my PA FR4x for the FR4-bx).

Totally excellent summary, and accords with my experience as well. I didn't start on the Roland, but the action is very easy - in fact, playing the Roland can make me a bit frustrated with necessarily slower reed (and button) response from real instruments. I can play passages significantly faster on there than I could on either of the two compact acoustics I had, and with fewer mistakes (particularly in difficult/quick bass passages - the Roland is apparently somewhat more forgiving of an accidental bass-button press with the side of my finger whilst playing the "real" note with my fingertip. I could very easily and quickly form some bad habits on the instrument because it's somewhat "friendlier" toward me.

It also has the excellent advantage that if you're unsure as to what "griff" you should learn, you can easily try them both out (or even a couple more exotic ones) on a single instrument. I'm finding myself tempted to spend a solid month re-teaching myself CBA in B-griff... it wouldn't be entirely from scratch, as B-system is just a mirror of C - relearning the scale patterns was a breeze because you just do the exact opposite of what you'd do in C-griff. But the fingerings of course don't mirror, so reteaching my muscles and intuition, that'd be the trick. And as I've recently posted elsewhere in the forums, there is a purity of sound to the free bass that I don't think is obtainable in other compact CBAs.

As @CC_PDX says, though, it doesn't feel like you're playing a "real" instrument, and it's no good for playing with others in public (probably not even good for playing solo in public). The speaker is quite weak, in fact to the point where having the volume maxed out is still slightly softer than I want, even just playing for myself alone. If I wanted to use it as my jam instrument, I would absolutely consider a small portable amp to be indispensible (and probably one where I'd need to bring spare batteries for that as well!).

Those FR-1xb's have dropped significantly in price recently, too, so yeah it's absolutely a great choice for a reliable starter instrument to learn CBA on. Especially if you were thinking about exploring free bass, because you absolutely won't find one at that price.

 

[micahcowan]

Another Portland player! I'm relatively new to it all, but curious about any sort of accordion community in PDX. Any thoughts, gatherings, etc? I play Irish BC currently, but I think I might be a bit obsessed, so will doubtless have more instruments at some point fairly soon.

Hi! I'm also in Portland (well, Vancouver, but same diff)! I've been going to Rose City Accordion Club, who meet in Milwaukie (yes, to you midwestern readers, we spell ours that way, sorry). You'd be very welcome there, I'm sure! They meet the 3rd Saturday of every month, and in fact have a meeting this coming Saturday.

RCAC also has an annual summer accordion camp thing, involving invited experts speaking on various minutia of technique, including things like advice on sight-reading, improvisation, alternative bass rhythms to avoid overuse of "oompah", etc. I haven't been yet, will probably make this my first year.

 

[Xiane]

Hi! I'm also in Portland (well, Vancouver, but same diff)! I've been going to Rose City Accordion Club, who meet in Milwaukie (yes, to you midwestern readers, we spell ours that way, sorry). You'd be very welcome there, I'm sure! They meet the 3rd Saturday of every month, and in fact have a meeting this coming Saturday.

RCAC also has an annual summer accordion camp thing, involving invited experts speaking on various minutia of technique, including things like advice on sight-reading, improvisation, alternative bass rhythms to avoid overuse of "oompah", etc. I haven't been yet, will probably make this my first year.

Ah, I should definitely come out to one of those, but I have plans this Saturday afternoon. I feel as though the long proclaimed accordion rebirth is happening at last. Possibly because now I have joined...

Anyhow, I'd be happy to meet fellow sufferers, ah, enthusiasts!

 

[micahcowan]

Ah, I should definitely come out to one of those, but I have plans this Saturday afternoon. I feel as though the long proclaimed accordion rebirth is happening at last. Possibly because now I have joined...

Anyhow, I'd be happy to meet fellow sufferers, ah, enthusiasts!

Heh, well as to a rebirth, I don't know if this group is the one to give you that. An awful lot of white hair, and I'm pretty sure that as (I believe) the youngest player there at 46, I'm beating the median age by a couple of decades!

But the age representation at the recent concert from the accordion orchestra ("accorchestra"?) from Sergei Teleshev's recent accordion camp in Houston, is definitely giving me some hope! (I'd post a link, but it was a paid livestream, and is not currently available for viewing)

 

[dak]

Heh, well as to a rebirth, I don't know if this group is the one to give you that. An awful lot of white hair, and I'm pretty sure that as (I believe) the youngest player there at 46, I'm beating the median age by a couple of decades!

But the age representation at the recent concert from the accordion orchestra ("accorchestra"?) from Sergei Teleshev's recent accordion camp in Houston, is definitely giving me some hope! (I'd post a link, but it was a paid livestream, and is not currently available for viewing)

A campfire guitar is a lot more available and affordable than a campfire accordion. The oldsters scoop up all of the latter for their folk session needs and ruin the prices.

 

[Pipemajor]

Irish musician playing a CBA.
(You can tell it's Irish music because the accordion is green. )

Ah but is he actually playing? All you hear is the ****^^""* banjo

 

[Xiane]

A campfire guitar is a lot more available and affordable than a campfire accordion. The oldsters scoop up all of the latter for their folk session needs and ruin the prices.

And yet there was a day that despite the existence of such guitars, accordions were everywhere, too. Well, not so many campfires, admittedly, but people talk about playing around the campfire probably more than they actually do it. They don't really bring the Marshall stack to the campfire, either.

 

[Xiane]

Ah but is he actually playing? All you hear is the ****^^""* banjo

You know this folk music thing would be a lot better with, ah, fewer folk playing, maybe?
(ducks)

 

[Tom]

Ah, the stereotypes. “Old guy with guitar” is pretty common around here as is “Old guy playing polkas.” I start every gig saying “This is an accordion and I’m not going to play a polka…unless you make me.” They do. I used to be an old guy with guitar, now I’m an old guy with accordion. Doesn’t seem to be much I can do about it…..

Btw. Eminently playable accordions for < $1000 are very available here in the Midwest. Maybe a trip out?

 

[Pipemajor]

Eminently playable accordions for < $1000 are very available here in the Midwest. Maybe a trip out?

Also in the UK, but even further to travel

 

[Xiane]

Heh, well as to a rebirth, I don't know if this group is the one to give you that. An awful lot of white hair, and I'm pretty sure that as (I believe) the youngest player there at 46, I'm beating the median age by a couple of decades!

But the age representation at the recent concert from the accordion orchestra ("accorchestra"?) from Sergei Teleshev's recent accordion camp in Houston, is definitely giving me some hope! (I'd post a link, but it was a paid livestream, and is not currently available for viewing)

I probably fall in the middle of that age range, but I'm originally from Houston so maybe a camp down there, visit some friends and make a trip to Lafayette and environs for food, music and dancing might be fun?