Anybody switched from CBA to PA?

[maugein96]

I'm toying with learning to play Italian musette style accordion on PA, but have been playing CBA exclusively for over 30 years.

I'm not thinking of giving up CBA, but was wondering if anybody on the forum has done anything similar, or has played both PA and CBA simultaneously? I have zero experience of playing any piano type instrument, other than messing about with my grandkids' Yamaha keyboard, which I found a bit alien compared to CBA.

I know that it couldn't be done overnight, but just wanted to know of any experiences. I might simply abandon the idea depending on any advice received.

 

[Soulsaver]

I'm keenly interested in this because I'm someone who has undertaken to consider a shift to buttons when satisfied with my PA playing & dot reading ability.
Most of the argument we hear is for going in the other direction from your plan, particularly for the style that you are so interested in and a style that I would like to play well, too. So what is the case for a shift to PA?

 

[maugein96]

Hello again soulsaver,

Just felt the urge to diversify, and have heard a lot of very nice Italian style musette tunes being played on PAs. As I grow older its seems that I am beginning to appreciate the more laid back legato sounds of the Italian PA vs the French musette CBA style.

Ideally I would take my lottery winnings to Italy and get a top of the range Italian made sistema francese CBA box, maybe a Stocco or a ByMarco. I don't think I would buy another French CBA, as I find them more difficult to play in terms of button accuracy. I have an Italian sistema francese CBA box but it is only 3 voice with 2 voice vibrato. The buttons are slightly larger and wider spaced than on my French instruments, and I personally find that the Italian buttons seem to suit my hand better. This may be something to consider if you finally decide to change over. French CBAs need greater accuracy so that you don't "foul" a button adjacent to the one you want to play. The transition from piano keys to Italian buttons would in my opinion be easier than French buttons. Italian CBAs are on average 1cm longer along a typical 16 treble button row than their French counterparts, which would not perhaps be much of an issue, unless like me you have both types of instrument.

As I seem to have mislaid that winning lottery ticket, cost is also a major factor. At my age as an amateur player fast approaching OAP status, I simply cannot justify the cost of a new or decent secondhand CBA, as they are getting harder and harder to find in the UK these days, and when they do turn up they are often sold at exorbitant prices. Another downside is that in almost 100% of cases the seller proudly proclaims them as "great for Scottish music". I have nothing against Scottish music or players, but it is just not my cup of tea. A lot of players with very strong Scottish musette tuned instruments play French, Italian, Alpine, and any other musette style tunes. Hats off to them but that Scottish musette sound grates on my ears. So does the French pur musette, and I abandoned it years ago in favour of the more mellow two voice "celeste" tuning. The Italian musette tuning is more mellow and easier on my old ears.

I can buy a decent s/h top Italian brand PA 4 voice with musette, for under a grand. I wouldn't even consider most CBAs I've seen for a similar price.

I'm not going to get involved with different musette tunings, as it is not something I know much about. However, if it was actually the case that one musette tuning was enough to cater for all styles, Roland wouldn't have bothered to provide the facility to change the settings.

That said, some of you may remember that my first post concerned Rolands vs French midi systems. If I ultimately decide that PA is just pie in the sky then I might have to reconsider a digital accordion, and it would be CBA. If I take too long deliberating it might not be a Roland though.

 

[Soulsaver]

Ok I understand the Scottish sound comments - I believe you (mostly) need the cultural background to appreciate it - I feel the same, I can enjoy a good player/tune but not something I'd have on my playlist - it eventually grates on me too.
So - if you can find one, why not have a 'great for Scottish/Irish' retuned to your taste?

Is there nothing in the Hohners?

 

[goldtopia]

From over time the various opinions on the forum is that button accordions are easier to play due to not having to run up and down the keyboard that you have to do on a piano accordion. There is more interest in changing to button than changing to piano type keyboard. I think it would be daft if you have learned the buttons reasonably well to consider changing to piano keyboard. I play piano accordion because I moved from piano to accordion.

 

[Anyanka]

There are some people who play both. Murray Grainger, for example. He is a professional though, and started playing as a rather young person.

Having switched from PA to CBA, I feel that there is nothing I could play on the PA that I can't do (better/easier) on the CBA, but I see your point regarding availability. I don't know where you are based, but here in the UK there is not much of a second-hand market in CBAs, whereas there are thousands of PAs out there in all sorts of price ranges, and tunings. For me, that is quite pleasant, as I no longer waste as much time window shopping as I did when still on piano accordion!

 

[george garside]

there is a lot to be said for staying with the system you know particularly if it is the CBA! The same can be done on either piano or cba but the CBA has advantages of compact fingering and duplicate notes to facilitate matters. 'So other than on a financial basis I would recommend staying 'as you are'

As to many (cba's) having Scottish tuning are you sure your not confusing the CBA and the British Chromatic

And for what its worth ,to me, there is no accordion sound that comes near to that of a Shand Morino 3 row British Chromatic ( 6 of which were specially made by Hohner as continentals to the order of Bells of London and at least 3 of which are still around.)

george

 

[Matt Butcher]

I reckon a player of your calibre and ear for the subtleties of style could do a good imitation on the instruments you've got... Quite an interesting challenge to change your style and probably more fun than learning piano keys from scratch! The Italian style you're talking about is nice, I had kind of forgotten, thank you.

A lot of the older CBAs you see down here in the Midlands are indeed Scottish tuned or a strong musette of some kind. There must have been a trend at some point if only amongst Scottish Brummies.

 

[cat]

I'm primarily a DBA/club player who's always desired to play CBA, but am instead persevering with PA for one reason--blues.

 

[maugein96]

Well, I'm very pleased with the responses, and they are more or less what I expected.

I am based in the Scottish Borders where there are no specialist accordion shops, and I was getting fed up browsing online and seeing hundreds of PAs for sale, with hardly any CBAs. I really do fancy learning some Italian musette style tunes, but I reckon it would be folly to have to learn to play from scratch again.

I knew that dry tuned instruments could be sharpened up, but until now was of the opinion that once they had been "maxed" up to Scottish/Irish there was no going back. Somebody once told me that the reeds had to be filed to sharpen their pitch, and I always believed that once you file something down you couldn't put the filings back on again. As I indicated before I don't know anything much at all about the hands on aspects of musette tuning. My reasoning was centred around the fact that if you tell a barber you want your hair short, then you can't ask him to put some back on again if you don't like it.

In any case you have all convinced me to scrap the idea of learning PA. Like I said I was "toying" with the idea and you have all succeeded in breaking my toy.

As Matt says there are a lot of Scots in the Midlands, and no doubt they think of home when they play their accordions. All those beautiful mountains glens and lochs. The truth is that most of us Scots are from the part of Scotland that is full of old coal and slag heaps, motorway flyovers, multiple junctions, sub-standard local authority housing, and disused canals. Bonnie Scotland is that other bit that you see in Calendars.

I once lived in the touristy privileged bit that they call Edinburgh. A wee bit of Edinburgh is calendar material, but the bits where the tourist coaches don't go is just the same as in the previous paragraph.

Edinburgh once had a fairly substantial Italian community in the east of the city. The CBA of preference was the Paolo Soprani Internazionale in black or red, and these often took centre stage in the window displays of some of the smaller music shops. I used to look at them in awe and amazement, as the price tags were not usually visible from the pavement outside. They can still occasionally be had, so I might need to keep my eyes open. They were big heavy 4 voice boxes LMMM, and some of them even had 5 voices depending on the model. There is a school of thought amongst Italian CBA players that the "Internazionale" type instruments (which I believe mainly concerns the front couplers and non stepped standard bass buttons) is an inferior animal to the sistema francese models, but if I find anything like the thing at a reasonable price then I am in that category of people who cannot afford to be a chooser.

Thanks to all who have replied. Sometimes you need people to tell that you are off your head, as you cannot realise it yourself.

 

[Matt Butcher]

...and it's one of those Paolos (not sure about the Internazionale bit) that I have ended up with, apparently built out of plywood and orange boxes and with a sound that I love and, well, some find it a bit brash. Check my location for some more industrial and postindustrial landscapes. My mother's parents were from picturesque bits of Scotland but my mum was from Merseyside, I think there's only so many sheep you can graze on a craggy rock in Caithness. Perhaps I would feel differently if that music had been all around me as the dominant culture...

 

[maugein96]

Matt,

Scottish accordion these days is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. A former work colleague of mine, Bob Liddle, has made a few of his own recordings featuring some of his own compositions. He plays a Paolo Soprani CBA Scottish tuned of course, but in the last few years has switched over to Roland (I think he has an Fr-7xb). At venues he also has to double up on vocals and guitar to keep them interested. He couldn't persuade me to play Scottish music, and I rarely see him these days. He is one of the very few semi-professional accordionists in this area. There are certain areas in Scotland where it is more popular, but I'm no expert as I'm sure you've worked out by now.

My family background is Irish on my mother's side (County Tyrone) and Scots/Irish on my father's side (Lanarkshire and County Antrim). I thought about Irish accordion at one time but it also never appealed to me.
Most accordionists where I grew up exclusively played Orange or Hibernian music, as they were nearly all members of sectarian marching bands. Never fancied walking 5 miles carrying 10 kilos of plywood and orange boxes and being pelted with stones and other missiles by the bystanders of the other denomination, who would invariably try and spoil the tunes being played by whatever means. I would also have needed two accordions, a green one for my mother's benefit, and an orange one for my father's. It didn't really matter how good a player you were, as the drummers were all you could normally hear.

I'm familiar with your area as my wife used to live in Rubery, the half crown Worcestershire side, not the 2 bob Brummie side, as it was once known locally. She is from the Scottish Borders originally.

 

[Soulsaver]

For the wider readership's info - pronounced 'Roobry' - not 'rubbery'