Any diatonic players here ?

[cat]

He swears he hasnt done anything with the inside of the box. He does have a very light touch which may account for it. Also, it might be fairly new Has Hohner addressed the problem of clicking buttons in its newer models ?

I have a few of those older 2915s (pokerwork) - the travel on the buttons is great, so a light touch is required to avoid clacking (they bottom-out). Also, new ones are made in China - its generally understood that these are not desirable, but only the older models made in Germany.

Im in the states - where I would have to drive two days to get to an accordion shop. My way around this is simply to buy vintage boxes off ebay; Fortunately, they are generally inexpensive because theyre basically archaic/esoteric to the general population.

 

[Corsaire]

I have a few of those older 2915s (pokerwork) - the travel on the buttons is great, so a light touch is required to avoid clacking (they "bottom-out"). Also, new ones are made in China - it's generally understood that these are not desirable, but only the older models made in Germany.

The 2915 is very popular here as a beginner's instrument for beginners like me and they are very easy to sell on when an upgrade is desired.

Knowing the exact place of manufacture can be a bit of a minefield (there are various topics here on this subject) and in the end, perhaps it's a question of how much it matters to you if the instrument fulfils your requirements in terms of feel, sound, budget and any other points of importance.

I shall be interested to see the different 2915s on Tuesday, how the sound quality differs between new and older models, whether they clack or not, bellows action etc etc.   The clacking is much more noticeable with beginners, bearing in mind that most may have not played any type of accordion before and a soft touch doesn't always come instinctively.

Who knows what I might come home with on Tuesday ?

 

[cat]

Oh, of course. Sorry - I shouldn't have dissed MIC instruments. I'm sure they are fine for starters.

*I hope you get one soon!

 

[Corsaire]

Got it ! A decent secondhand Hohner 2915 that's been checked out and serviced by the shop and tuned with a little less vibrato than standard. It's going to be a challenge and like learning a completely new instrument.

I had a feel of a new Stelvio .... something to aim for in the future. Chalk and cheese - a completely different touch and probably far easier to play .... eventually, something to set my sights on. But the road will be long ....

 

[maugein96]

Got it ! A decent secondhand Hohner 2915 thats been checked out and serviced by the shop and tuned with a little less vibrato than standard. Its going to be a challenge and like learning a completely new instrument.

I had a feel of a new Stelvio .... something to aim for in the future. Chalk and cheese - a completely different touch and probably far easier to play .... eventually, something to set my sights on. But the road will be long ....

Happy New Box day!

The road wont be that long (providing youre going in the right direction).

Heres a nice easy one for you start off with:-



Might take a few days to nail it, but it will be worth it. Just a wee reminder that you can play loads of stuff on a Hohner diatonic.

After a month or so you should be able to play this one. At least youll have heard it before:-

(Listen for the wee cheats he has to put in, pretty clever!)

 

[Corsaire]

  It'll be a few weeks until I get to that standard ..... 
Music books, as ordinary books, have always been expensive in France and there are some good Youtube tutorials.  I've got one book but still believe one to one tuition is important to start with otherwise bad habits will creep in and once established, will be harder to get rid of.

The tune I posted earlier "Le Revenant" is in my beginners book !  I realised it was a simple tune, but when played as this chap plays it, with expression and a trill or two, it sounds great !

 

[maugein96]

Sally,

Probably best sticking to what you hear around you (at least until you get familiar with the instrument). As you say there is plenty of local music that suits them perfectly.

There seems to be a wealth of instruction for them on the internet, and it's just a case of finding one that you can work with for the tuning you have.

An old Irish coalminer where I grew up was pretty clever on Hohner two rows. His party piece was getting so drunk he couldn't play it properly and he'd throw it in the fire. Then, as soon as he had the cash, he'd board a tramcar and head for "Ra Barras" in Glasgow where he'd just buy another one.

In these days of environmental concern I just keep a 10lb hammer in the cellar, as we live near the centre of town, and that modern celluloid finish they use on accordion body shells stinks to high heaven when it's burned. I never realised by how much until I had burned a dozen or so!

 

[jozz]

keep us posted on your progress :!:

 

[hais1273]

I stumbled across this delightful version of Le Revenant this morning.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJcTscjUT8

It just goes to show a tune does not have to be complex to be good. I regularly play with a couple of melodeonistas who have Pokerwerks, the clattering bass buttons can be a bit annoying I suppose. But if I play with just an 8 or 16 reed against the soaking wet pokerwerk tuning, the effect is generally pretty good, well IMHO. Also, The pokerwerks are loud enough to disguise any incompetencies on my part!

 

[Corsaire]

Hais

Ive just bought a secondhand  2519 and Iv discovered very quickly that I can stop the clacking on the bass side by the way I press the keys.  Learning the buttons is fine, the hardest part is co-ordinating the bellows - you have to know how not to run out of air and after 3 days, Im not quite there yet !!

Yes, Le Revenant is a brilliant tune, very simple melody but played with variations sounds great.  I still think this is the best version Ive come across.  The player is part of a Facebook group for diatonic accordionists and he swears hes done nothing inside to box to stop the clacking !



It was seeing this video that persuaded me to start with the Hohner.  Our local accordion shop where I bought it gave the tuning a tweak as I found it too wet for my liking !

 

[cat]

Congratulations :ch

Brilliant little machine. It produces a lot of sound per square cm - a lot of music can be made upon it! And they're just so ...squeeezy.

 

[Corsaire]

Congratulations  :ch
Brilliant little machine.  It produces a lot of sound per square cm - a lot of music can be made upon it! And they're just so ...squeeezy

Thanks Cat - I love it already !  Yes, it's wonderfully squeezy !!

 

[hais1273]

One of the clacking Pokerwerks belongs to an ex-morris player, I sometimes think he treats the bass as a percussion instrument,I guess it's just that style.  He also plays a refurbished Hohner Mignon an improbably loud instrument considering it's diminutive  size, again with the percussive left hand.

The problem with diato breathing, hmm I'e sat through several "interesting" conversations about the difficulty of notes that are only availble in one direction, although often it's the change in bellow direction that gives the ooomph in dance music, something I am little envious of at times. I have to work hard to remember to give the bellows  a nudge at the right point. My wife tells me cross rowing helps with breathing problems as does a flexible approach to left hand chords.

 

[Corsaire]

I've discovered very quickly that I can't change bellow direction when I want to !  And it's essential to make use of both rows to avoid having to do a big shunt to avoid running out of air.  The tablature below the music makes it easy to get the correct "breathing" and I have no doubt that being able to read music is a big help.  The smaller diatos are limited to which keys they can play in so I can imagine it's a question of improvising if you need a harmony that is a bit different.

 

[dunlustin]

I think you will find that many push/pull box players 'ride' the airbutton to sneak small top-ups to the air situation.
This is particularly true if you like those 'pull-leaning' Am tunes.

 

[george garside]

It all depends on the type of 'diatonic' box.  On a one row  , particulary of the 4 voice veriety   the air button is the only way of controlling  air supply as there are no notes in alternative directions.

on a 2 row DG box which is pro;bably the most popular tuning in England  some ply more or less exclusively 'on the row' to get maximum lift and bounce for dance music whilst others indulge in a degree of cross rowing to improve?? bass harmony or to bring about a change in bellows direction.

French and German players who generally favour  CF of GC boxes generelly use both rows and are more interested in getting something like decent bass harmony than in using the bass to drive a rhythm.

3 row boxes eg ADG. GCF  provide some more alternative direction notes and usually haave 12 bass ( rather than the 8 of a 2 row)

The similar but different semitone boxes i.e. 2 rows tuned a semitone apart eg BC,  &CC# are in fact chromatic  but some keys are quite difficult.  The bass is to put it politely 'of limited use' and indeed many players of Irish trad music don't use the bass at all

Then there are the large  'British Chromatic ' 3 row diatonic boxes as made famous by Sir Jimmy  Shand.   3 rows tuned B, C , C#  .These are easlily chromatic  and  a mere 5 scales provided the wherewithal for 12 keys.  All notes with the exeption of G, D and A are available in either bellows direction  and  anything up to 120 bass. and 4 treable voices. The bass being obviously not effected by bellows direction.   


The famous Shand MOrino box ( designed by Jimmy Shand and ?Venesio Morino came in two sizes  105 or 117 Bass!

The so called diatonic ( even though many are actually chromatic) boxes  are fascinating to play and well suited to many types of folk/trad music but are not suitable for 'classical'  stuff  because of lack of availability of some  right hand chords because you simply can't come and go at the same time! eg a full G maj chord is impossible on the treble but then  few listeners would notice the lack thereof

The book A to Z  of the Accordion volume 4 ( by ROB HOward)  contains a 5 page  article by me on diatonics  ( one mans diatonic musings)    The whole series of books makle a very good read and are, I think still available

george

---

It all depends on the type of 'diatonic' box.  On a one row  , particulary of the 4 voice veriety   the air button is the only way of controlling  air supply as there are no notes in alternative directions.

on a 2 row DG box which is pro;bably the most popular tuning in England  some ply more or less exclusively 'on the row' to get maximum lift and bounce for dance music whilst others indulge in a degree of cross rowing to improve?? bass harmony or to bring about a change in bellows direction.

French and German players who generally favour  CF of GC boxes generelly use both rows and are more interested in getting something like decent bass harmony than in using the bass to drive a rhythm.

3 row boxes eg ADG. GCF  provide some more alternative direction notes and usually haave 12 bass ( rather than the 8 of a 2 row)

The similar but different semitone boxes i.e. 2 rows tuned a semitone apart eg BC,  &CC# are in fact chromatic  but some keys are quite difficult.  The bass is to put it politely 'of limited use' and indeed many players of Irish trad music don't use the bass at all

Then there are the large  'British Chromatic ' 3 row diatonic boxes as made famous by Sir Jimmy  Shand.   3 rows tuned B, C , C#  .These are easlily chromatic  and  a mere 5 scales provided the wherewithal for 12 keys.  All notes with the exeption of G, D and A are available in either bellows direction  and  anything up to 120 bass. and 4 treable voices. The bass being obviously not effected by bellows direction.   


The famous Shand MOrino box ( designed by Jimmy Shand and ?Venesio Morino came in two sizes  105 or 117 Bass!

The so called diatonic ( even though many are actually chromatic) boxes  are fascinating to play and well suited to many types of folk/trad music but are not suitable for 'classical'  stuff  because of lack of availability of some  right hand chords because you simply can't come and go at the same time! eg a full G maj chord is impossible on the treble but then  few listeners would notice the lack thereof

The book A to Z  of the Accordion volume 4 ( by ROB HOward)  contains a 5 page  article by me on diatonics  ( one mans diatonic musings)    The whole series of books makle a very good read and are, I think still available

george

 

[george garside]

It is true that ones thumb should always REST on the air button/bar  but that is not the same as riding the air button in the sense of constantly making small adjustments of bellows position with it.  IN the early stages  of playing and even maybe when learning a new tune   ;it is best to plan where  to draw in or let out extra air ( over and above that  resulting from normal use of the bellwos)   Eg on a tune with a lot of pull notes  the air button should be used on any push note or better still small group of push notes and similarly if playing towards the bellwos closing.  

When the air button is pressed bellows pressure is slightly increased  so there is no change in the volume being played.  The 'danger' of lots of little jabs on the air button is that you can lose what you have just gained if the air button is not swiftly released!

george

 

[Corsaire]

Just a quick update on my progress with the diatonic.

I love it !!!

Ive have found it not as difficult to cope with as I expected though theres still a long way to go.  Im getting used to the bellows action and memorising where the notes are.  There are literally hundreds of simple tunes which are great for learning and a couple of months on, Im not sure how to continue so its time for some tuition.  Fingering and bellows technique will be easier to sort out now before bad habits become too set.

Some of the beginners tunes use a major chord where clearly there should be a minor chord which to me grates. I have been told that it is part of the charm of the diatonic ....  The only minor chord on a G/C box is Am.  However, I have learnt that you can use Dm7 and Em7 and the sound is an awful lot nicer.

Im thinking of changing to a Stelvio 2 row G/C which is easier to play than the Hohner and it also has a tirette you can pull to neutralise the chords, ie remove the middle note.  Ill see on Wednesday how this sounds, and will plan for some tuition at the same time.  

The diatonic is so different from the chromatic, but then horses for courses ....