Antique Accordion Bass Repair

[John G]

Hi Everyone,

An antique accordion I received has issues in the bass mechanism. A few buttons get stuck and won’t release occasionally and when playing certain chords sometimes other buttons will gradually sink in. I have noticed the bottom row (circled in red) has levers not seated on rods as the rods are too far down. Is this potentially the issue and if so how might I fix it?

Thanks!

-John

 

[JKJ]

I am an accordion beginner and certainly not a repair person, however I’m studying and slowly learning to make some adjustments and minor repairs. For your problem I would watch the action for some chords that work and compare to those that don‘t to understand what‘s supposed to push what then try to see why some don’t. Maybe the instrument was dropped.

Maybe read this to start

Inside an Accordion Bass Mechanism - George Whitfield %

I needed a part so I started to dismantle an accordion bass mechanism that I had in my accordion graveyard.

georgewhitfield.co.uk

The trouble-shooting guide here might be useful

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

and this article

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

and there may be some useful info here (maybe near the end of the article) depending on the problem

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

But if available in your area the services of an accordion repair person might be very helpful, at least to take a quick look and see if there’s an easy fix. A quick inspection might be all that’s needed. That’s what I did. The repair person could also look for other, perhaps, potential, problems.

 

[John G]

Thanks! I have actually referred to those articles you linked. I can’t seem to find anything that has a good diagram of what the rod alignment should be in the bass mechanism, especially for the antique model that I have.

 

[John G]

I am an accordion beginner and certainly not a repair person, however I’m studying and slowly learning to make some adjustments and minor repairs. For your problem I would watch the action for some chords that work and compare to those that don‘t to understand what‘s supposed to push what then try to see why some don’t. Maybe the instrument was dropped.

Maybe read this to start

Inside an Accordion Bass Mechanism - George Whitfield %

I needed a part so I started to dismantle an accordion bass mechanism that I had in my accordion graveyard.

georgewhitfield.co.uk

The trouble-shooting guide here might be useful

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

and this article

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

and there may be some useful info here (maybe near the end of the article) depending on the problem

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

But if available in your area the services of an accordion repair person might be very helpful, at least to take a quick look and see if there’s an easy fix. A quick inspection might be all that’s needed. That’s what I did. The repair person could also look for other, perhaps, potential, problems.

Thanks again for the share. I referred to the accordion revival guide section you posted which I must not have previously reviewed in detail and was able to fix the issue by carefully bending the levers upward.

 

[debra]

Thanks again for the share. I referred to the accordion revival guide section you posted which I must not have previously reviewed in detail and was able to fix the issue by carefully bending the levers upward.

If buttons still do not come up easily and fast after the fixed you made here are still some things to consider:
1) The pistons pass through small slots in wood. Moisture may cause wood to swell and the metal pistons may not pass through smoothly. It may be quite hard to fix the slots and it's not really advisable to make the pistons thinner by filing them.
2) The holes the buttons go through normally have a circular piece of felt that "guides" the button through. Some batches of felt used for these rings may have been just a bit too thick. Also, if the piston is slightly bent the button may not be going through hole perfectly straight through and then there will be a bit of friction between button and felt ring.

 

[John G]

If buttons still do not come up easily and fast after the fixed you made here are still some things to consider:
1) The pistons pass through small slots in wood. Moisture may cause wood to swell and the metal pistons may not pass through smoothly. It may be quite hard to fix the slots and it's not really advisable to make the pistons thinner by filing them.
2) The holes the buttons go through normally have a circular piece of felt that "guides" the button through. Some batches of felt used for these rings may have been just a bit too thick. Also, if the piston is slightly bent the button may not be going through hole perfectly straight through and then there will be a bit of friction between button and felt ring.

Thank you Debra! I will take a look. It is in playable condition after the adjustments I made but there are two buttons left that will stick. I will take a look to see if the pistons are slightly bent and will fix that if so. Really appreciate the advice.

 

[32251]

I use spray Teflon lube in the bass section of old accordions that are pretty much on the way to land fills if the bass section is about worn out and barely playable. I know, I know….you are not supposed to use any lubricants, but there are some modern lubricants that don’t swell up wood and such and can actually bring a faulty bass section back to good use.

 

[debra]

I use spray Teflon lube in the bass section of old accordions that are pretty much on the way to land fills if the bass section is about worn out and barely playable. I know, I know….you are not supposed to use any lubricants, but there are some modern lubricants that don’t swell up wood and such and can actually bring a faulty bass section back to good use.

I'm not sure Teflon lube is safe to use in accordions. When I'm desperate and must use some lube I use "Protek CLP", which is supposedly a safe lube I bought from a piano parts store. It comes with a syringe so you can put tiny drops exactly where you want them (you don't spray it around randomly). But generally it should really not be needed. The bass mechanism shown in the picture shows signs of rust which should be cleaned off thoroughly, and some of the levers are rubbing against the pistons, so some (0,2mm is enough) separation should fix that and make the operation smoother. In my (limited) experience when bass buttons get stuck in most cases it's because the piston is bent and the button sticks out somewhat sideways.

 

[henry d]

Spray silicone works quite well. It goes on with a carrier that quickly evaporates. The silicone film residue is quite persistent and had had no dust collecting characteristics at all. I'd use it for years on many old accordions and have never encountered any finish marring issues nor wood, leather, pad swelling, adhesive failure, problems.

A spritz down the length of the keyboard right where the keys pivot seems to help with a smooth action and key removal at a later date; the rods come out more easily when required. You can also use it on the individual coil spring type keywork.

Hardly a miracle cure all, but based on a lot of use seems completely harmless.

 

[henry d]

Incidentally; most of the teflon sprays wind up with quite a mess over time in my experience and the carriers vary in terms of their interaction with wood, felt, leather, and adhesives. Great on bicycle chains- though nowhere near thick enough for motorcycle chains.

WD 40 doesn't seem to leave a mess, though there is some slight palpable oily feel, but while it leaves finishes alone it wreaks havoc with adhesives and on some woods causes swelling. Wonderful for sliding mechanisms and light duty hinges. Also really good for clean-up of adhesive (and many other) residues.

This is based upon extensive personal use on not just accordions but pretty much anything else. I'm a lubricant junkie dating way ,way, back. "Your mileage may, and probably will, vary."

If you want to step into a real hornet's nest talk about slide and piston lubricants on a brasswind forum...

 

[henry d]

For your problem I would watch the action for some chords that work and compare to those that don‘t to understand what‘s supposed to push what then try to see why some don’t. Maybe the instrument was dropped.

To figure out what's wrong, you might put your finger on one of the lever arms that's obviously way too low and raise it up and down watching to see where the associated movements are. You'll almost certainly find that one (or two" of them has a jumped pin.

Take care to observe the levers and pins obscured behind the horizontal strips down towards the bottom end- some of those can be hard to spot.

Good luck.

 

[JKJ]

I'm a lubricant junkie dating way ,way, back. "Your mileage may, and probably will, vary."

Me too, I’m compulsive greaser. That’s a good thing around farm and construction equipment, even french horn and trumpet. Use a lot of dry lube too.

I have no experience with any kind of lube on accordions but I read warnings, e.g. From George Bachich on the Accordion Revival web site:

NEVER OIL YOUR ACCORDION

Accordions are big air filters. Lots of air is pumped through them, and the moisture, dust and lint in the air all tend to collect on interior parts, so the air emerges cleaner than it went in. This accumulation of lint in the accordion is inevitable, but oiling any part in the accordion tends to make it even worse. The oil attracts more dust and lint than before, and when enough of it combines with the oil, it makes a thick, gooey substance that can cause keys, bass buttons, and register switches and slides to stick.

When you encounter a sticking key, button, switch, or slide, you may be tempted to oil it, but on accordions you should resist that temptation. The better course is to take it apart, clean it thoroughly, determine the source of friction, sand, smooth, polish, realign, or loosen parts as necessary to reduce the friction, and put it back together dry. Although oil may seem to help in the short run, in the long run you will regret using it. If you absolutely must use some lubricant, try graphite, but very sparingly, or you will have another kind of mess as the graphite spreads to areas you never intended it to go.

My own experience with lubricating instruments made from wood/leather/cloth/metal is with pianos, for example when rebuilding and maintaining a player piano - powdered graphite is recommended, and as George mentions, used sparingly, very sparingly. I put a tiny smear on a finger or piece of leather or felt and rub it on sliding/rotating surfaces. The graphite I used came in a small cardboard tube with a felt applicator. Also, one of the absolute Dos and Don'ts for player pianos is never use oil on the rotating parts/joints but instead use bearing grease or vaseline (again, sparingly). I wonder if this is appropriate for accordions too.

 

[32251]

WD 40 doesn't seem to leave a mess, though there is some slight palpable oily feel, but while it leaves finishes alone it wreaks havoc with adhesives and on some woods causes swelling. Wonderful for sliding mechanisms and light duty hinges. Also really good for clean-up of adhesive (and many other) residues.

This is based upon extensive personal use on not just accordions but pretty much anything else. I'm a lubricant junkie dating way ,way, back. "Your mileage may, and probably will, vary."

If you want to step into a real hornet's nest talk about slide and piston lubricants on a brasswind forum...


Your mileage may, and probably will, vary.

Me too, I’m compulsive greaser. That’s a good thing around farm and construction equipment, even french horn and trumpet. Use a lot of dry lube too.

I have no experience with any kind of lube on accordions but I read warnings, e.g. From George Bachich on the Accordion Revival web site:

NEVER OIL YOUR ACCORDION

Accordions are big air filters. Lots of air is pumped through them, and the moisture, dust and lint in the air all tend to collect on interior parts, so the air emerges cleaner than it went in. This accumulation of lint in the accordion is inevitable, but oiling any part in the accordion tends to make it even worse. The oil attracts more dust and lint than before, and when enough of it combines with the oil, it makes a thick, gooey substance that can cause keys, bass buttons, and register switches and slides to stick.

When you encounter a sticking key, button, switch, or slide, you may be tempted to oil it, but on accordions you should resist that temptation. The better course is to take it apart, clean it thoroughly, determine the source of friction, sand, smooth, polish, realign, or loosen parts as necessary to reduce the friction, and put it back together dry. Although oil may seem to help in the short run, in the long run you will regret using it. If you absolutely must use some lubricant, try graphite, but very sparingly, or you will have another kind of mess as the graphite spreads to areas you never intended it to go.

My own experience with lubricating instruments made from wood/leather/cloth/metal is with pianos, for example when rebuilding and maintaining a player piano - powdered graphite is recommended, and as George mentions, used sparingly, very sparingly. I put a tiny smear on a finger or piece of leather or felt and rub it on sliding/rotating surfaces. The graphite I used came in a small cardboard tube with a felt applicator. Also, one of the absolute Dos and Don'ts for player pianos is never use oil on the rotating parts/joints but instead use bearing grease or vaseline (again, sparingly). I wonder if this is appropriate for accordions too.

Never oil is probably from the era of three in one. Modern lubes such as Teflon don’t act like Dino oil. I have used Teflon spray on wooden key joints with no problem. Bass mechanisms sprayed with Teflon spray have also come back to life for me. Powder graphite is just too messy for me.

Wd40 was mentioned. My brother in law sprayed wd40 on his automatic pistol collection before storing them a few years. They were frozen solid. The wd40 turned into a black tar. I only use it on lawnmower wheels.

 

[Dingo40]

try graphite,

You're kidding!?
Have you ever used graphite on anything?
Graphite makes a major mess!
I wouldn't advise it !

 

[Dingo40]

Bass mechanisms sprayed with Teflon spray have also come back to life for me

Teflon spray is also very good for freeing up plastic light switches!

 

[Dingo40]

They were frozen solid. The wd40 turned into a black tar.

Ahh, there's more than one "WD40" product.
This is the one you want:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-150g-specialist-anti-friction-dry-ptfe-lubricant_p6100410

Great for light switches.
I can imagine using this on accordion!

 

[JKJ]

You're kidding!?
Have you ever used graphite on anything?
Graphite makes a major mess!
I wouldn't advise it !

Not kidding, I‘ve used graphite many times. I think mess or no mess depends on how and where you apply graphite. My experience confirms what Mr Bachich said about using it “sparingly.” If a small amount is rubbed into a wood surface, for example, the powder works into the pores and won’t get spread around. Too much and applied loose? Yes, mess!

No experience with accordions but in addition to the player piano I‘ve used graphite when I made wood jigs and components with sliding or rotating parts, wood against wood or wood against metal. For example I machined a bracket from wood to substitute for a metal one that was missing from a used sliding table saw attachment I bought for my shop. A smear of graphite allowed it to work smoothly.

Powdered graphite has also been used extensively to lube some metal parts, for example key locks, and doesn‘t make a mess if used correctly. I think a better lock lube is a grahited fluid - applied as a liquid, a thin dry film of graphite remains as the carrier solvent evaporates. (Although I hear some locksmiths prefer teflon, either powdered or fluid-based.) I use a LOT of keyed padlocks around the farm, some decades old, some constantly exposed to the elements. For those I prefer a teflon ”dry” lubricant, fine teflon in an evaporating liquid carrier. (good for combination locks too) Silicone based ”dry” lube is also good but is generally banned from woodworking shops because of how it affects wood finishes. Again, I don‘t have personal knowledge about the wisdom of using any of these in an accordion!

JKJ

 

[boxplayer4000]

'Nicht Oilen' it says in many of the accordions I've seen. (Excuse the German spelling if it's wrong)
Like JKL I've seen graphite being recommend for lock keys, such as those of the 'chubb' kind; I've used it successfully.
Except in very exceptional circumstances (and quantities) oil and accordions don't agree, WD-40 as well.

 

[dak]

Never oil is probably from the era of three in one. Modern lubes such as Teflon don’t act like Dino oil. I have used Teflon spray on wooden key joints with no problem. Bass mechanisms sprayed with Teflon spray have also come back to life for me. Powder graphite is just too messy for me.

Wd40 was mentioned. My brother in law sprayed wd40 on his automatic pistol collection before storing them a few years. They were frozen solid. The wd40 turned into a black tar. I only use it on lawnmower wheels.

Where lubricant is deadly is with surfaces sliding against each other, like a stack of register sliders or piston bearings. Normally the law of friction creates resistance proportional to perpendicular forces. With lubricant, you get forces proportional to the touching areas, and those are large. Bass mechanics, as mentioned, pass through a lot of dust and lint, and you don't want it to collect into films.

 

[John G]

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up completely dissembling the bass mechanism and replacing valves etc. I had everything really organized and had no trouble until I did. I ended up breaking one of the levers off of a note pipe (it was really loose likely due to it being 100 years old) when leveling everything. Any feedback of how I could reattach it? I was thinking I may be able to solder it back on but have only soldered electronics. Any solder you would recommend for the job. After this is fixed the bass mechanism is almost restored.