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Accordion Crossroads

They are two great disks! Worth listening to a lot as the style is of another time and it takes a while to 'tune in'.

Bach is a great example as so much of his keyboard work is non-instrument specific, simply for 'clavier' and so it can belong as much to the accordion as to the harpsichord. I actually think some of it really comes to life on the accordion in a way it doesn't on other keyboard instruments. Of course Bach's keyboard is very different to a modern PA keyboard.
 
I will follow Petch's advice and look to hire a nice C griff converter for a few months, and really dedicate myself to getting to understand it. It's not a long time, but I could just look to learn some scales and arpeggios, find the hand positions of some chords on the chromatic bass, and maybe write a short piece that reflects how I interact with the instrument. I would have the quint converter to use as a benchmark.

I know that when my quint converter arrived on day one, I knew almost straight away that I like the bass layout. It just felt comfortable and capable of being used to good effect in different ways to what I had known before. For example, a three octave bass stretch is easy as pie. I feel I could do so much with it. But it would be nice to discover if I have similar feelings when I try a button instrument with chromatic bass. I sense the chromatic button instrument will be good. But it will need to be very good to match or improve on my experience with the quint.

Thanks Ben for the advice on the recordings. I plan to let the Cornysh and Taverner music 'marinade' for a good while. It's the only way to truly understand it.

Of course Bach's keyboard is very different to a the modern PA keyboard.

When I think of the PA keyboard, I am visualising the footprint of the keyboard (from above), shape of the keys etc that are similar to older harpsichord etc. I understand the mechanics of sound production are very different as is the vertical position. But surely Bach would not have had many problems getting his tunes out of an accordion keyboard & free bass. And no trouble with a forest of buttons either.
 
a three octave bass stretch is easy as pie
An octave on chromatic bass is 4 rows of buttons, about 2", so still doable especially when you can get your thumb involved!

Mr Saunders might be able to share some resources that include scale fingerings and general learning material for C system (treble and bass) if you ask nicely. I have very recently begun learning free bass/C system myself and Saunders is partly to thank for that. I'm really enjoying it, even with my almost non-existent musical background 😁
 
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@petch, Did you find an instrument with buttons both sides yet? I noticed a Mengascini on ZZ music recently. Looks really nice.
 
@petch, Did you find an instrument with buttons both sides yet? I noticed a Mengascini on ZZ music recently. Looks really nice.
I've had a standard bass CBA since I started learning but as far as free bass goes I recently got a little Pigini on loan until it's asked back for or I buy my owner, whichever comes first! Going to go and try one next weekend hopefully
 
Thing that's got my mind whirring is the CJS bass layout....diads rather than triads...I always find the stradella too busy but would like more room to move without having to reprogram my noggin with a new system..less is more
If I'm ever in Turin I'll go test it out and if cool as I imagine I'll leave my accordion with them to convert...
 
If I'm ever in Turin I'll go test it out and if cool as I imagine I'll leave my accordion with them to convert...
Smart move. It's good to be open to new systems, whilst also mindful of your own system. The grass may (or may not) be greener on the other side, but it does no harm to take your colour chart, just to check.
 
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Walker, I just listened to your "Finding tir a nog"(sp?). Beautiful composition and playing. So I step back my earlier advice. If you do choose a turn in the road, you will probably be doing it for sounder musical reasons than I did. Nevertheless, your current accordion has a great sound and range for that style of Celtic music.

I play trumpet, and most players strive to have a strong high range, even though most music never goes there. Chet Baker made beautiful and meaningful music for decades within a 2 1/2 octave range. I think the extremes of what an accordion can do, especially on the low end are interesting and exciting, but not where the accordion is at its best. And as far as the right hand layout goes, buttons are a bit cooler, but i have seen as many people play the keys with incredible skill and musicality as I have seen play the buttons. I read somewhere that the mind doesn't benefit from a logical layout as much as we think it does.

But whatever you choose, keep up the good work!
 
@craigd, I was already impressed by the wisdom of your earlier contributions, but now I am quite delighted by your kind words about my music too. Thank you.

When I was young I wanted to play the accordion well and to a reasonably high standard. But as I get older, I am more interested in the creative process - particularly composition. As I have always played the piano accordion, it is my default choice. I love the piano accordion and I generally find the musical output of good piano accordionists to be comparable to good button accordionists. What I have discovered recently is that I really enjoy free bass and I have learned that the quint converter has wonderful potential. But in an age where the chromatic converter (either with treble keys or buttons) is becoming very popular, I feel it would be wise to check the system out before I settle into the quint converter for the long haul. I think any system can be great as a means of creating music, and that's all I really care about. Many of the technical factors that lead people to choose one system over the other are not so important to me.

I agree with you about the tonal sweet spot of the accordion not necessarily being at the lowest octaves. I find that it can be easy to get carried away by thoughts of a large compass of notes - rather than just making good music. Chet Baker, Clifford Brown or any of the greats would surely put music first. I think I will probably continue with quint converter accordion - maybe even with cassotto. But you know, if I discovered something special on a different system - an extra dimension (that I was capable of extracting) from a button converter, then I may be compelled to find room in my heart and home for it too. Time will tell.

 
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It's been a few weeks since I started the Accordion Crossroads post. I just thought I would give a short update. For dance music I will continue with the piano accordion with stradella bass and musette tuning, that's a given.

But also in the last 9 months or so I bought a Quint converter to write new music with and play traditional slow airs with more flexible harmonisation options. This was a novel idea, but overall I think it worked better than I could have expected. I was able to write a couple of tunes in a different style - Dalriada and Finding Tir na nOg. I have also discovered that if I take a traditional air like The Wild Mountain Thyme, I can play it as a waltz using stradella and then switch to free bass and even just working on the 3 outermost rows (rows 4, 5, 6) create a simple harmony pattern, for example:

Row 4 (fundimental) sustain the bass note A with finger 4. And play broken chords on rows 5 and 6 such as:

A C# E C# HighA C#
(fingers) 4 3 2 3 2 3

But really, I am a casual quintist, so to speak. I have never had any desire to play classical music or anything serious. It had always just been an experiment with smoothing the harder edges from stradella pre-set chords. In this sense I have already achieved my goal and can usually improvise a simple bass harmony to accompany an air with little effort.

However, I think quint can do a lot more than this, because I have heard so many good accordion players playing beautiful music on the instrument. For example, Margherita Berlanda plays Bach's English Suites on a quint converter, and it sounds great.

In the last few days I have started working on one of Bach's Two Part Inventions - VIII in F major. I am focusing on the bass only and have reached bar 16, though I am playing it slowly. I want to take my time and not build in mistakes. I hope to be through the bass part before the end of June, and playing it at a reasonable tempo. I think the quint accordion is suited to this type of keyboard music. However, my aim in learning this piece is not out of a burning desire to play Bach. No, it is a means to develop the technique of the hands, so that I can compose more music and experiment with different styles.

However, I am not closed to the thoughts and ideas of others. I have read a lot about the potential of the chromatic converter. I have made a number of enquiries to hire an accordion with C griff chromatic system. I am hopeful that I will obtain an instrument shortly. However, if I do find one, it will not be a piano accordion. I want to try to find a button instrument with mirrored bass. It seems like a natural combination to me. I don't know if it will work for me but I am open to give it a go.

At the end of the day, once I have tried a chromatic converter, I may decide that I have discovered all I need to from the freebass accordion. For all I know, I may retire from all forms of free bass and just go back to stradella accordion with musette tuning. I sense that in all it's wonderous diversity the many free bass accordions are a great invention, but part of me thinks I might be just as wise to put my efforts into playing the piano to get the counterpoint hit. Simple (in the flow of keys) , international and I would become a multi instrumentalist. :)

Here's my favourite version of Bach's Invention VIII.

Take it away Glenn:


I have a bit of practising to do now. Might take a while, but I am sure we will speak again soon.

Thanks for all your comments.

Stewart
 
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I am starting to use the free bass on my 8X. I was looking for a simple tune and Wild Mountain Thyme (thanks to Walker) is great. I am using a score I found on Music Notes which has the melody for the treble and two additional staffs that are good for use on the free bass. I have set up some real nice single reed dry tones on the 8X. The 8X free bass has a choice of 27 reed tones (16’ or 8’), each having a 3 octave range.

If you are interested in the score for Wild Mountain Thyme, here’s the link:
https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0187567
If you pay $2.00 more you can download the PDF version. The PDF version is available in 7 different keys

John M.
 
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