DI Box
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JeffJetton
Prolific poster
I don't have a digital accordion, but I've had plenty of experience plugging synths, keyboards, and various other things into DIs. They all work the same way... Just use your regular cable with 1/4" plugs on each end to connect the FR8 to the DI. Then plug the usual XLR (mic) cable into the DI, with the other end going to whatever (the stage box or right into the mixer, etc.)
There will be a pad switch on the DI, which you'll probably want to have on. Your volume on the FR8 should be fairly high.
Obviously, unless you're routing your bass signal to the treble output, you'll need two 1/4" cables or a single "stereo" cable, two DI boxes (or a single box that handles two or more channels), two XLR cables, and then use two channels of the mixer in order to maintain separation of the two sides.
If the box is "passive"--that is, doesn't take batteries--then the console will usually have to be able to supply phantom power to it via the XLR cable.
There will be a pad switch on the DI, which you'll probably want to have on. Your volume on the FR8 should be fairly high.
Obviously, unless you're routing your bass signal to the treble output, you'll need two 1/4" cables or a single "stereo" cable, two DI boxes (or a single box that handles two or more channels), two XLR cables, and then use two channels of the mixer in order to maintain separation of the two sides.
If the box is "passive"--that is, doesn't take batteries--then the console will usually have to be able to supply phantom power to it via the XLR cable.
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
a direct box is typically used to isolate an audio signal from noise
running a Digital Accordion on it's battery means there is no noise to worry about
running modern internal Mics via 9 volt battery for the reeds on an acoustic accordion
also means there is no noise to worry about
originally, DI circuits were made using incredibly well wound copper coils
(like small transformers) with 1:1 ratio or with other ratio's when
impedance matching was also needed.. no power is needed for
these types of DI interfaces
your signal is fed in across the input coil and is induced without physical connection
into the output coil
using a wireless audio transmitter and battery powered receiver will also give
physical isolation, the types using digital conversion and transmission being the
most immune to picking up any type of noise
running a Digital Accordion on it's battery means there is no noise to worry about
running modern internal Mics via 9 volt battery for the reeds on an acoustic accordion
also means there is no noise to worry about
originally, DI circuits were made using incredibly well wound copper coils
(like small transformers) with 1:1 ratio or with other ratio's when
impedance matching was also needed.. no power is needed for
these types of DI interfaces
your signal is fed in across the input coil and is induced without physical connection
into the output coil
using a wireless audio transmitter and battery powered receiver will also give
physical isolation, the types using digital conversion and transmission being the
most immune to picking up any type of noise
You really don’t need a DI box on a digital accordion. Sound doesn’t change going through DI or straight in.
JeffJetton
Prolific poster
Depends on the situation. If you're playing a small venue where the PA's mixing console is nearby on stage and takes instrument-level input, or you're just using your own amp right there next to you, you probably don't need one.
But for larger places where the stage signals have to run out to a front-of-house console (I've done gigs where that could easily be 100+ feet away), you typically need some way to convert your unbalanced, high impedance accordion output to a balanced, low impedance signal that can run down mic cables and into the "snake". It would be rare to have a regular instrument cable long enough for that distance, plus you wouldn't want to use it anyway due to signal loss and noise accrued by the length of the run.
Also handy at any size venue or in a recording studio if the console's pre-amps only take balanced (XLR) inputs, and/or if you want to split your signal to go to both the console and your own amp (most DIs have a 1/4" pass-through jack for that).
I've had a single 250 foot cable attached to my Elka for it's powered acoustic accordion mics, made no diff (so you would need some VERY extreme situations!). I suppose if you want to make 400+ foot runs there may be some attenuation, but if the cable is of good quality, should not make any sound quality difference.
The reason guitars need it is that they lose a lot of high end tones on longer runs (which can be eliminated if you have a HIGH-Z input on your mixer, but then again bass and guitar signals are so low powered in comparison to us, a 2 mph breeze affects them... LOL.
The reason guitars need it is that they lose a lot of high end tones on longer runs (which can be eliminated if you have a HIGH-Z input on your mixer, but then again bass and guitar signals are so low powered in comparison to us, a 2 mph breeze affects them... LOL.
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Hello everyone.
Another route to go is one that I have used to record a Roland.
The 1/4" output jacks usually mean it's a high impedance, unbalanced output, thus the DI boxes with impedance matching and balanced, low impedance outputs.
Instead of using two DI boxes, I used two 1/4" to XLR matching transformers.
Like this one
accessories.yorkville.com
This would be less expensive than two high end DI boxes and ensures the left and right (or how ever you would like to blend them in the mix) is truly equal in strength going into your recording interface.
Here is my late friend Alain Thomas as I recorded him.
drive.google.com
Another route to go is one that I have used to record a Roland.
The 1/4" output jacks usually mean it's a high impedance, unbalanced output, thus the DI boxes with impedance matching and balanced, low impedance outputs.
Instead of using two DI boxes, I used two 1/4" to XLR matching transformers.
Like this one
Yorkville Accessories
This would be less expensive than two high end DI boxes and ensures the left and right (or how ever you would like to blend them in the mix) is truly equal in strength going into your recording interface.
Here is my late friend Alain Thomas as I recorded him.
Alain Thomas – Google Drive
drive.google.com
if it takes phantom it's active..
General rule: a Roland FR8x or any other hot unbalanced synth is typically put through a passive box which should give you best result. But in most cases it will be put through "what is at hand" which is most likely a general purpose active box, and then padded.
Aside from shielding and such - a hot synth can easily overload an input with huge amount of dB's - therefore a box is placed in the chain, not because it wouldn't work otherwise, but also to protect a vulnerable expensive preamp which could potentially be damaged if Mr. Accordionist decides to send his powered Roland's output at full volume into an "open" channel. Rather replace a box every now and again, than a whole mixing desk.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
way back in the dark ages of the FR7, we did note how
the V-Accordion could easily distort some wireless transmitters
input circuitry
and so we evaluated and recommended several specific nicer mid-priced
and high end quality wireless units that either could just handle it,
or had a -10db switch built in
many of these were affordable, so some of us did use dual
units and broadcast in Stereo
there were a very few stereo wireless units back then,
but i rejected them all for various reasons at the time
the idea of tethering an accordion player to a wire, especially
in a big stage situation, just so that you can make some
Sound guy happy is a joke when you can just hand him
a wireless battery powered receiver (or two) and
roam the stage like the Rock God you are
the V-Accordion could easily distort some wireless transmitters
input circuitry
and so we evaluated and recommended several specific nicer mid-priced
and high end quality wireless units that either could just handle it,
or had a -10db switch built in
many of these were affordable, so some of us did use dual
units and broadcast in Stereo
there were a very few stereo wireless units back then,
but i rejected them all for various reasons at the time
the idea of tethering an accordion player to a wire, especially
in a big stage situation, just so that you can make some
Sound guy happy is a joke when you can just hand him
a wireless battery powered receiver (or two) and
roam the stage like the Rock God you are
Hi,
There can still be some issues with wireless today.
Their tone can be affected by fast transients in the music source/instrument.
This video illustrates it in relation to In Ear Monitor wireless, but there are common elements with microphone wireless.
The "sound guy" is usually trying to make you sound the best possible so we don't sound like a joke while playing our best.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
a couple tweaks i would do with wireless
first off, i went digital transmitters and receivers ages ago
(line 6 for years, then some newer brands caught up)
now the issue is the quality of the DAC's, but the wide
improvements in noise rejection and being basically immune to
other wireless audio systems in he area (like taxicabs) was worth it for me
so many boards now convert to digital at the inputs anyway
second, many high end wireless systems can be purchased in
hand held Mic, lapel or headworn mic, and "Guitar" type belt transmitter so
if you buy an extra "Mic " model with the same frequencies and setup as
your "belt pack" model, then you have your XLR output available
if and when you need it, as the hand held models usually have it as
an output choice (and having a spare of everything never hurts)
another trick is the Lavalier models have phantom power sort of..
they feed 9 volts to their electret mic.. so if you have installed
a mic rail that needs power (like a sennheiser setup) you can use
your transmitter to power your accordion Mic's
(assuming you basically always gig with wireless running)
there are lots of different demands and needs in performance situations,
and being as ready as possible with versatile equipment gives us an edge
i remember when i first had the FR7 in the DC area and started using it
on my own gigs (not just for Roland demo's) some nice people from PBS
in Baltimore were at the Cafe de Paris for dinner and loved the box..
they called me a couple weeks later with an invite to play background in their
Studio during the annual fundraiser, for the live segments between the featured
shows (with a French theme that afternoon)
the poor soundman tried everything he had to get good, useable audio from
the fR7, but the damn keyboards (especially the bass) are so damn noisy
(physically) so i walked back out to the Van and brought in my wireless setup
and it did the trick for him because of course there is no physical accordion noise at all
in the audio output (i had already programmed out all the growls and crap that Roland left in)
first off, i went digital transmitters and receivers ages ago
(line 6 for years, then some newer brands caught up)
now the issue is the quality of the DAC's, but the wide
improvements in noise rejection and being basically immune to
other wireless audio systems in he area (like taxicabs) was worth it for me
so many boards now convert to digital at the inputs anyway
second, many high end wireless systems can be purchased in
hand held Mic, lapel or headworn mic, and "Guitar" type belt transmitter so
if you buy an extra "Mic " model with the same frequencies and setup as
your "belt pack" model, then you have your XLR output available
if and when you need it, as the hand held models usually have it as
an output choice (and having a spare of everything never hurts)
another trick is the Lavalier models have phantom power sort of..
they feed 9 volts to their electret mic.. so if you have installed
a mic rail that needs power (like a sennheiser setup) you can use
your transmitter to power your accordion Mic's
(assuming you basically always gig with wireless running)
there are lots of different demands and needs in performance situations,
and being as ready as possible with versatile equipment gives us an edge
i remember when i first had the FR7 in the DC area and started using it
on my own gigs (not just for Roland demo's) some nice people from PBS
in Baltimore were at the Cafe de Paris for dinner and loved the box..
they called me a couple weeks later with an invite to play background in their
Studio during the annual fundraiser, for the live segments between the featured
shows (with a French theme that afternoon)
the poor soundman tried everything he had to get good, useable audio from
the fR7, but the damn keyboards (especially the bass) are so damn noisy
(physically) so i walked back out to the Van and brought in my wireless setup
and it did the trick for him because of course there is no physical accordion noise at all
in the audio output (i had already programmed out all the growls and crap that Roland left in)
Ha, Ha. I loved that you were able to take out the cheesy ROland "effects."
Did they have a "button click" simulation?
Without a built in FFT like the gentleman Mike Rat (video) has using the SMART system it is hard to see if there is any transient issues with the RF packs so I can't ask you if you experience the same with your present digital , RF, transmitter.
But please let me know what transmitter that you are using so I can keep track of it and keep an eye out for any detailed technical info?
That's a great tip on the phantom power for anyone considering the combination. Most of the small electret's will run off of it and even a few low current demand, small area condenser's like my AKG C1000's.
There is a gentleman who has a listing on Reverb for an "Handmade microphone for accordions" that used two c1000 elements.
Handmade Microphone system for Accordions With two AKG C1000 Capsules | Reverb
Handmade Microphone system for Accordions With two AKG C1000 Capsules work great . Condition - used-AKG C1000 Microphones x 2- On/Off switch- 1/4" mono out- Volume control- 9V battery compartment the battery cover is missingComes without batteryThe item is used and have some marksWha...
reverb.com
I would love to see and hear your setup one day but I believe my chances of returning to the USA are slim.
Cheers and stay well.
Tom eh
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