Opinion on Bass Techique

[Technical]

Hi,

I'm a beginner who just wants some third party perspectives and opnions on bass technique. I've had a lesson recently and the teacher corrected my technique but I'm struggling with it.

I use 4th finger for bass row and 3rd finger for major row but have been told I should use my second finger for all rows beyond that (I just used my 3rd), something to do with freeing up a finger for alternating bass. I've been told my fingers should be at an angle and not vertical inline and this is why I struggle with putting my 4th and 3rd finger on bass and major at the same time (I currently just press both with my 4th fingers). I've also been told that I should open and close the bellows like a book, which I know from my own research but the problem with all these suggestions is I struggle to physically do them.

I think part of the problem is my thick fingers (UK ring size Z+2/3) but possibly also my lack of suppleness. I can just about press minor with my second finger if I bend my hand up instead of just having it palm flat aghainst the side but as the bellows go out and the angle increases it makes it less possible for my hand/wrist to follow. I'm just not sure how I open my bellows down and still physically follow it with my band in a way where I can play the bass buttons. I also just can't physically get my 4th and 2nd finger to come close enough together in certain positions to play bass and minor.

I assumed that people had their palm flat against the instrument so do you get that angle on the fingers purely from bending them slighting differently? I struggle to do these positions without bending my hand up and of course this makes things more difficult when playing bass notes of a decent distance apart. Maybe part of the solution is doing stretches? Should I be moving my 4th out of the way for my 2nd to play? I'm hoping I'm just missing a piece of the puzzle which will make it all work, I can't be the only one with thick fingers.

Any insights would be welcome.

 

[Dingo40]

Any insights would be welcome.

From what I've been told, in English speaking countries, there are two basic conventions for the left hand (though things loosen up as you progress up the ranks musically):
4th finger for bass and counter bass.
3rd finger for chords
And,
3rd finger for bass and counter bass.
2nd finger for chords.

Personally, I use the 2nd alternative, mainly because it was the one preferred in the Palmer Hughes series of accordion instruction, but eventually, whichever finger is available for the purpose comes into play, and different genres favour still other combinations, as you come to realise .
I'm not sure I appreciate your difficulty as there shouldn't be one.
Is your instrument full size (19 to 20 inches across the keyboard edge to edge of the white keys)?
When playing, my left hand is somewhat curled like a claw and I tend to hit the buttons with the finger tips but many young ladies play with cultivated, very long fingernails, so they must hit them successfully with the pads of their fingers .
Have you tried practicing in front of a large mirror so you have visual feedback to guide you (until you get the hang of it)?
The whole thing should be like falling off a log!
Here's one of many instructive videos on YouTube:

She uses the 3,2 fingering and you can see how her hand is slightly curled.
(BTW, she's also an advocate of using a mirror as an aid to learning the basses )
Perhaps you could elaborate on your difficulty

 

[debra]

The two major "schools" for bass fingering exist for a long time already: 1) 4 and 3 for base note and major chords and 2 for minor seventh and diminished. And when you alternate base note with quint you use 4 3 2 3 for base note, major, quint, major and you use 4 2 3 2 for base note, minor or seventh, quint, minor or seventh... and the second 2) 3 for base note and quint and 2 for all chords. (With Belgian bass that is 3 for base note, 4 for quint, 2 for all chords.)
I have learnt the first method. I believe bayan players (Russia, Ukraine) use the second method.

 

[JeffJetton]

The answer is, as always, listen to your instructor.

* Yes, if you're using 4 on the bass and 3 on the major chord (which is what I do too), you should normally use 2 for the other chord types
* Yes, your fingers should be basically at an angle. To get a sense of what that feels like, try placing your 4th finger on C bass, 3rd on C major, and 2nd on C minor all at the same time. Bonus points if you can get your 5th finger on the counter bass of C. Now see where your palm naturally lands against the back of the bass section (probably a bit lower than you might expect), and how your hand feels in general.
* That is, start with where your fingers should go, and then figure out the palm. Not the other way around.
* Be sure you're using the tips of your fingers and not the pads. Even thin-fingered people will hit multiple buttons unless they curl their fingers quite a lot. (Imagine filing your nails.)
* Yes, you should open the bellows like a book. Really it's more a matter of letting them fall open that way. Coaxing them along with the help of gravity.
* You can also think of it as being like a "V", or like there's a hinge on the bottom. It might be a useful exercise to play for a bit with the bottom bellows strap still on. (In fact I know of a player who plays like that all the time!)
* You shouldn't have to move any of your fingers too far out of the way to accommodate other ones. That leads to "flying finger syndrome", which is inefficient and error-prone.

Beyond all that, practice, time, and patience are key. Playing the left side of the accordion while also controlling the bellows is not a normal human movement. It's normal for it to take some getting used to.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Hmmm. I guess you’re totally confused by now. 3-2? 4-3? How to hold your hand?

Jeff said most of what I wanted to say. There is a natural progression of tunes or pieces that will take you away from that rigid pattern in some instances, and even involve your pinkie, but that may be a year or two away. In the meantime:

1. Keep practicing on a regular basis.

2. Adjust your bass strap tight enough to have full control of your bellows but so tight that it hinders vertical movement of your hand, if necessary.

 

[Technical]

Thanks everytone for the responses, I've tried to use some of it such as being concious of curves fingers, put fingers down first etc.

Things have improved but it feels like a square peg round hole situation still, feel like I must still be missing something or being stupid. I'll obviously bring it up again with a teacher but I'm trying to get as much info as I can to figure this out.

I've seen the video above before and it's not too helpful because she uses 2,3 and when demonstrating each line uses 3 for bass but 2 for all other lines (like I use 3). A lot of videos of good players arn't helpful too as often they don't hover their fingers above the notes like a beginner (as mentioned above) and often are too fast or complex as an example.

I really struggle to fit all 3 fingers above the 3 rows especially when deviating away from whatever my starting position was. It's difficult to get a photo of it and I'm not sure it is helpful at all but thought I'd attach one incase. Squeezeing my 2nd and 4th together is a big enough challenge.

The other challenge is still the bellows, as I extend them out and down naturally the angle of my wrist decreases which makies my hand/fingers less mobile.

 

[Tom]

Thanks everytone for the responses, I've tried to use some of it such as being concious of curves fingers, put fingers down first etc.

Things have improved but it feels like a square peg round hole situation still, feel like I must still be missing something or being stupid. I'll obviously bring it up again with a teacher but I'm trying to get as much info as I can to figure this out.

I've seen the video above before and it's not too helpful because she uses 2,3 and when demonstrating each line uses 3 for bass but 2 for all other lines (like I use 3). A lot of videos of good players arn't helpful too as often they don't hover their fingers above the notes like a beginner (as mentioned above) and often are too fast or complex as an example.

I really struggle to fit all 3 fingers above the 3 rows especially when deviating away from whatever my starting position was. It's difficult to get a photo of it and I'm not sure it is helpful at all but thought I'd attach one incase. Squeezeing my 2nd and 4th together is a big enough challenge.

The other challenge is still the bellows, as I extend them out and down naturally the angle of my wrist decreases which makies my hand/fingers less mobile.

As has been noted, you’ll gain fluency with practice. The struggle you feel is pretty normal. I believe that over time, you will not feel this squeezing of your fingers because your third and fourth fingers will naturally start to “get up and out of the way” when you are doing the (fifth) with your second finger. I don’t believe it is necessary to have your third and fourth fingers down on the buttons when you play your second finger. (I am assuming you are still playing your fundamental bass with fourth?). Others may disagree. You will find your own way, give it time.

 

[Technical]

As has been noted, you’ll gain fluency with practice. The struggle you feel is pretty normal. I believe that over time, you will not feel this squeezing of your fingers because your third and fourth fingers will naturally start to “get up and out of the way” when you are doing the (fifth) with your second finger. I don’t believe it is necessary to have your third and fourth fingers down on the buttons when you play your second finger. (I am assuming you are still playing your fundamental bass with fourth?). Others may disagree. You will find your own way, give it time.

That's one thing I'm confused about, I tended to move my fingers out of the way in the past but trying not to do it too much based on what people say. Some people say your fingers shouldn't move off but surely they have to? I suppose the amount you move them off correlates to how quickly you can find and play the button magain.

 

[Tom]

That's one thing I'm confused about, I tended to move my fingers out of the way in the past but trying not to do it too much based on what people say. Some people say your fingers shouldn't move off but surely they have to? I suppose the amount you move them off correlates to how quickly you can find and play the button magain.

Yeah, surely they have to. Just hang in there, you’ll find your own way and it will become smooth. Eventually you won’t even think about it. Good luck!

 

[oldbayan]

Use what is most comfortable for you

 

[JerryPH]

Use what is most comfortable for you

Bingo.
As an accordionist grows, they will also find that not one hand position covers all possibilities and so moving/angling the wrist or changing it’s position to permit the reach for more complex pieces will be a thing that happens often.

 

[dak]

Sorry for reposting this here: I just figured that the kind of exaggerated camera use helps making the point: the left hand has its own camera, and the piece uses Stradella bass:

If you watch the fingering here, you'll notice a few things: sometimes, when there is no sequencing or complication or other suggesting a particular fingering, one can see that I am more of a 3-4 guy. But those "everything else being equal" moments are actually comparatively rare and I don't spend effort positioning fingers that are not actually going to get used. Also there are occasions where I do a finger change, indicating that my fingering patterns don't work out perfectly every time.

In my other life I happen to play the violin, and particularly in higher positions there is no way you'll cram all your fingers on the string in the correct place, and it would also preclude doing vibrato.

So my advice is just to not overthink this. Practice what your teacher recommends: it is a starting point or home position that comes with typical patterns and strategies to move forward from, and those patterns and strategies develop over time in relation to the pieces you play, and you make it harder if you start things differently every time.

Cramming every finger in place in advance isn't necessary: essentially you just keep enough contact not to get lost, and over time your mental image of the bass buttons is substituting a fair share of actual touch and move and position.

You'll get there eventually, but it is really nothing you can actively plan for in detail. Some things you just need to do, any old way, before eventually patterns establish themselves. Your teacher should be able to figure out when your patterns end up being less than helpful.