New comer here! Can I have some suggestions in choosing a CBA?

[NikitaVerde]

Are you using the weight disks like a foot stool to lift your legs up higher? It sounds like your shoulder straps may be too short. When sitting, your accordion should be able to rest comfortably on your left leg for support without raising your legs. Watch THIS VIDEO and see if it helps you.

However, that video is for a piano accordion or 5-row CBA. With the narrow keyboard on a three row button accordion, it is possible you may not be able to press your right leg against the keyboard to keep the accordion from moving to the right when you push the bellows. In that case, you may need to depend on your left shoulder strap, and/or use your thumb against the edge of the keyboard AS THIS PERSON IS DOING, who is not even using a left shoulder strap. Experiment and see what works best for you.

Wow. Thank you very much.

I noticed a long time ago that my 3-row accordion gets a very short treble side. If I sit in the "standard" position with opened legs, it just cannot reach my right leg. Unfortunately, everyone talking about holding an accordion has a piano accordion or 5-row CBA.. The issue of mine is just unspoken. You are the first one to mention it, as far as I know.

 

[NikitaVerde]

It really depends on where those 1.5k EUR are going. If 500 is towards the accordion and 1,000 into sleazy accordion shop owner's pocket, then it's definitely not a good budget.
If you have somebody to help you choose a used box in person, and you really shop around this sort of money should buy:
- Good playable condition high end 3-row Soviet bayan with hand-made reeds (Pro-grade tula, yasnaya polyana, etc - not the horrible mass produced factory-built rubbish sold on etsy etc). 3-row & heavy = they are not as desirable as modern models, but in terms of reeds, sound & playability they are as good as accordions get. Their prices have halved since the start of the war, but most that are sold in Europe are not playable - the good ones tend to be sold domestically because they are good and easy to sell. All the duds get shifted to EU and US by dodgy crooks presenting themselves as online accordion shops.
- Good, very playable condition non-cassotto 3-voice CBA from an Italian maker with TAM reeds;
- Top-of-the-line chambered Hohner or some Italian job from 1950s-1980s that needs a service and a major tuning. Some of these are much more playable than others, e.g. 1950s Hohners' wax can still be acceptable and they used plastic valves that last for decades compared to leather ones starting to go hard after 15 years. If it plays reasonably well out of the box, you can always save up another 500EUR ffor a service & tuning in a few months' time.

But for all 3 options you need someone who knows what you're buying to check them in person!

Very helpful

 

[tcabot]

and/or use your thumb against the edge of the keyboard

Which can be considered a very bad habit by modern technique standards.
Resting the thumb occasionally is open to discussions, but using it to stabilise the box is a big no-no and a sure sign that your shoulder straps are not set up.

 

[SteveBox]

Resting the thumb occasionally is open to discussions, but using it to stabilise the box is a big no-no and a sure sign that your shoulder straps are not set up.

Yes and no, I think it depends on the type of accordion and the technique a person has learned. In the video I linked, someone is playing a three-row bayan with only one shoulder strap and the thumb for stability (as do many diatonic accordionists). That works for him, is it wrong? I presented that as an alternative that Nikita could experiment with, but I encourage her to try to adjust the straps, so this is not necessary.

 

[tcabot]

That works for him, is it wrong

It's a technique from a 100 years ago that nobody teaches these days. There's no right or wrong, but this is about as close to wrong as it gets, imho as everyone has moved away from as early as 1960s.

 

[SteveBox]

It's a technique from a 100 years ago that nobody teaches these days.

I agree, it's not common these days, but I suspect there have been teachers much more recently than 100 years ago of the old-school four-finger technique. I have found numerous examples on the "tube" of CBA players resting their thumb on the side, where it is available for stability if necessary. Of course, we don't know if they were taught or taught themselves.

A few examples I was able to quickly find:
Sebastien Lagrange, Dominique Riviere, A Large Bayan, Jean L'Irland'Oc, Alf Hagedal, an accordion duo, someone teaching this technique.

Using the thumb for stability is standard for diatonic players. A little different situation, since the thumb is not needed for playing these instruments (there are two notes on each button, so eight notes under your four fingers).

I use the four-finger method on my small 3-row CBA sometimes, but not most of the time. I find it to have some advantages.

Nikita should probably follow her teacher's advice, but it is good to know of other possibilities.

 

[tcabot]

While we're at it, we can also advise NikiVerde's owner to look at the keyboard all the time while playing.
It works for some, right?

 

[SteveBox]

While we're at it, we can also advise NikiVerde's owner to look at the keyboard all the time while playing.
It works for some, right?

You raise a good point for a beginner. I've observed a fair number of accordionists performing with their head bent down, but have they mastered their instrument? I don't think a musician can master any instrument until they can play it without watching their fingers. It is best to never start this habit. While learning, one can put a diagram of the keyboard on your music stand for a reference, but one should play the instrument entirely by feel.

I hope I have not come across as promoting the four-finger, thumb on the side method of playing the CBA. I am not recommending any particular technique. I doubt there is agreement on what is the one best way. Even the modern teachers who have published CBA method books, they have different recommendations on what fingers to use to play scales. If you have a teacher, the teacher is naturally going to insist you learn to play the way they play.

 

[SteveBox]

Another good video on how to wear your accordion. The first half is standing, the last half is sitting.

 

[Ffingers]

Start your journey here:

Index page, "Play Your Accordion Without Pain" book by John Bonica PT CMP NZRP

Index page,

www.musicforaccordion.com

for a less traumatic experience.

 

[OuijaBoard]

To give another perspective on learning CBA as a beginner--I don't know how many treble notes your 3-row has. But so long as it has at least 30 or more notes (not buttons--tones)--honestly, you might go a couple of years before truly needing a 4 or 5 row. Or at least, no big rush to acquire a larger instrument even if not waiting a couple of years. There is a school of CBA pedagogy that views the three outer rows as the "home" or default position. In that school of thought, the student becomes fluid and fluent on those three rows before starting to branch out with alternate fingerings on added rows. You honestly could work on that for a fair bit of time--playing scales and melodies in all keys, playing scales hands together backwards and forwards, playing pieces and music that work on 3 rows--and there's a lot of it, let me assure you. You could be working on that while taking your time to find just the right larger CBA without losing any ground.

You could also take this approach with a 3-row C system if you decide to go C griff and come across a nice 3-row before you find a 4 or 5 row that suits. There are a fair few used 3-row 80-bass CBA C systems for sale in France. And there's plenty to do with a 3-row.

 

[dak]

To give another perspective on learning CBA as a beginner--I don't know how many treble notes your 3-row has. But so long as it has at least 30 or more notes (not buttons--tones)--honestly, you might go a couple of years before truly needing a 4 or 5 row.

Number of notes has nothing to do with number of rows.

Or at least, no big rush to acquire a larger instrument even if the wait isn't a couple of years. There is a school of CBA pedagogy that views the three outer rows as the "home" or default position. In that school of thought, the student becomes fluid and fluent on those three rows before starting to branch out with alternate fingerings on added rows.

The additional rows are not as much for "alternate fingerings" (scales work well enough with 3 rows, and believing in the "one scale pattern should be enough for anybody" theory will without necessity confine your abilities significantly) as for chords and trills. Particularly on C system, various chords are a nuisance to play without a fourth row.

You honestly could work on that for a fair bit of time--playing scales and melodies in all keys, playing scales hands together backwards and forwards, playing music that works on 3 rows--and there's a lot of it, let me assure you. You could be working on that and taking your time to find just the right larger CBA without losing any ground. There's plenty to do with a 3-row.

Sure. But at some point of time you get where working without the occasional fourth row becomes a cramping nuisance.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Number of notes has nothing to do with number of rows.

The additional rows are not as much for "alternate fingerings" (scales work well enough with 3 rows, and believing in the "one scale pattern should be enough for anybody" theory will without necessity confine your abilities significantly) as for chords and trills. Particularly on C system, various chords are a nuisance to play without a fourth row.

Sure. But at some point of time you get where working without the occasional fourth row becomes a cramping nuisance.

LOL, you could play the entire repertoire of French musette classics on 3 rows with zero cramping. The vast majority of people who take up CBA never get that far. Of course, people in it for the long term who move to chordal rather than single-melody music would find multi-voiced treble-side playing to be cramping on a 3-row and would want and need more rows.

But the reality is that the vast majority of CBA students don't stick with it long enough to even gain single-melody fluency on the 3 home rows. You have lots to do keeping busy with that while taking your time to search out a larger instrument that's just the right fit in the meantime.

Yes, I know the number of notes has nothing to do with the number of rows. That is why I mentioned the caveat that one can do much learning with a 3-row so long as the 3-row has at least 30 notes, not to be confused with 30 buttons.

 

[dak]

LOL, you could play the entire repertoire of French musette classics on 3 rows with zero cramping. The vast majority of people who take up CBA never get that far.

Playing a 4-note F major chord in root position (broken or straight) is not exactly conservatory repertoire.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Playing a 4-note F major chord in root position (broken or straight) is not exactly conservatory repertoire.

As I noted, it's an actual pedagogical approach to CBA learning. It's not the only approach, but it has a long tradition. I didn't make it up daydreaming at the kitchen table. And I agree with it to the degree that a student of 3 months who may even switch systems has no rush to get a 4 or 5 row accordion immediately before a 3-row is holding them back in any way . . . also stated as, Call me when you can play "Indifference" or "Flambee Montalbanaise" waltz fluidly and fluently hands together in a few different keys, with appropriate rhythm and swing, on 3 rows. We can talk about acquiring a larger instrument then. And no, I don't have any problem playing an "F" chord on 3 rows once in a piece. For the Bach Riemenschneider I'd want more rows. But neither I nor the vast majority of people who play CBA give two you-know-whats about the Bach Riemenschneider. And if one does give two you-know-whats about the Bach Riemenschneider, there is plenty to learn before rushing to acquire an accordion equipped for that.

 

[dak]

And no, I don't have any problem playing an "F" chord on 3 rows once in a piece.

That's not really "once in a piece" material. Something fairly common like chromatic chord progressions ("Phantom of the Opera" theme, for example) is just annoying if you have to change hand shape completely in the middle (to a particularly awkward shape) just to flip back one note later. That's worse than piano accordion.

And yes, of course I can do it. But why would I want to? It makes playing this smoothly two grades more difficult, and I don't see the point in difficulty for its own sake. If I want to build character, I go rock climbing. And even there, on the small scale I avoid any unnecessarily strenuous move and invest my skills in the big picture rather than isolated feats.