37 key, 120 bass models recommendations

[forró]

I am starting to look around at 37 key 120 bass models.
Was considering a 96 bass for even more compactness / lightness, but feel like I could be caught out with some song requiring a big jump if I didn't have the extra rows.
Would love some insight on this. Have you been caught out playing a 96 and going 'Oh I wish I had a 120 bass right now' ?

If I do get one it would be my second accordion.
My current one is a 41 / 120 weighing in at around 10,4kg (22,9lbs)
I do not have a problem with the weight but I feel like my practice sessions and eventual (hopefully) performances would be easier with something smaller and lighter, even if it's just for family and friends.

I do not play any classical pieces, and I think for the odd song or two that requires the use of the highest notes - I can work my way around that.

Not a complete beginner (2 years), but the focus is on second-hand accordions.
Having listened to a lot of forró - I do like the Giuiletti sound very much, but I am not tied up on it and I try other styles as well.

37 keys
120 bass (maybe 96?)
< 10kg (22lbs)
Don't need double cassotto
Prefer established / reputable models
Acoustic only, don't want an electronic one.

No budget range established yet, open to it all - within reason, no exotics or rareties.

 

[Tom]

Everyone knows my answer. Get a 34/72 Piatanesi like half the other forrozeiros in Brazil. Unless you really need the 120. I never feel the need for the 120 when I am playing out and the smaller format is so much easier to deal with when standing and playing hard for an hour. Plus we all have plenty of 120s lying around the house. Look on the website and call Sig. Ovidio directly, get a good price, he’s got plenty of experience shipping them there sanfonas to Brazil don’tcha know. . Unless they only ship to dealers, I don’t know. Just my opinion and I am usually wrong so listen to someone else too.

 

[debra]

I don't think I have ever needed the 2 extra rows at the top and bottom that 120 bass offers you over 96. To have all the notes you require 12x6 = 72 bass. A 96 bass gives you 2 extra rows at the top and bottom and that should normally be enough. You don't really need another 2 extra rows on top of that.

 

[Ben-jammin]

You don’t mention what reed configuration you need. Do you need four treble reeds? Do you need single cassotto? Some non cassotto LMM 41/120 boxes are pretty light weight.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

If you’re interested in a reed-less, the Roland FR-4x is a 37/120 accordion that might be right for you.

 

[NickC]

I could be wrong, but I don't think a 120 bass would add much weight. Just the parts for the buttons. Aren't the extra rows just using the reeds that are already used by the other buttons? If you stick with 120 bass buttons, that would certainly narrow your choices. I've mostly seen 37/96, but I have seen them with 120, just not as often.

Scandalli and Brandoni both make them. I think they are heavier than 10KG though.

Scandalli Intense (37/120 LMMH II TC)

Details Like new, this Scandalli Intense features an olive wood veneer finish, double tone chamber, handmade reeds and Harmonik's AC 501-HQ microphones system. Specifications 17" keyboard (43 cm) 37 treble keys – 120 bass buttons11+Master – 7 bass registers4/5 sets of Handmade reedsTuning...

petosa.com

NEW Black Brandoni 130C Liberty Piano Accordion LMMH 37 120

Type: Piano Accordion Reeds: 4/5 LMMH Treble: 37 Keys, 17.5(44.5cm) Key to Key, 11 Registers Bass: 120 Buttons, 7 Registers Weight: 24lbs / 11kg Features: Super Durall reeds, treble range F to F, Professional internal Mics - Harmonik AC501HQ Installed

www.libertybellows.com

Pigini lists this as 8.5KG:

WING 374 CHERRYWOOD - Pigini Accordions

The cherry wood of the Wing 374 Cherrywood model offers a warm and deep sound that integrates with the unmistakable acoustics.

www.pigini.com

Here is one that has sold already:

3486 - Black Pigini Wing 374 Piano Accordion LMMM 37 120

Type: Piano Accordion Reeds: 4/5 LMMM Treble: 37 Keys, 17(43cm) Key to Key, 9 Registers Bass: 120 Bass Buttons, 3 Registers Weight: 21lbs / 9.5kg Features: Lightweight with full bass range

www.libertybellows.com

 

[NickC]

Oh, to answer your question...I play 96 bass instruments. I've never ran out of buttons. But, I don't play classical or music that is overly complex harmonically.

 

[forró]

Everyone knows my answer. Get a 34/72 Piatanesi like half the other forrozeiros in Brazil. Unless you really need the 120. I never feel the need for the 120 when I am playing out and the smaller format is so much easier to deal with when standing and playing hard for an hour. Plus we all have plenty of 120s lying around the house. Look on the website and call Sig. Ovidio directly, get a good price, he’s got plenty of experience shipping them there sanfonas to Brazil don’tcha know. . Unless they only ship to dealers, I don’t know. Just my opinion and I am usually wrong so listen to someone else too.

Interesting, I shall have a look into that.
I do like the Piatanesis very much - well, the look anyway. I have yet to try one.

I am actually based in Australia, not in Brazil. We do have a vibrant forró scene here.

Although, all the sanfoneiros I've seen seem to be using 120.
If I could use less, I'm all for it. Don't need to be waltzing around stage with a piano strapped to my chest.
I have never explored a 34 / 72 at all - thanks for the tip!

 

[forró]

I don't think I have ever needed the 2 extra rows at the top and bottom that 120 bass offers you over 96. To have all the notes you require 12x6 = 72 bass. A 96 bass gives you 2 extra rows at the top and bottom and that should normally be enough. You don't really need another 2 extra rows on top of that.

Interesting. I can understand the extra rows with a 96 over a 72 is to avoid some jumps.
Is this the same reason for a 120 over a 96, to avoid even more jumps?

What kind of player would actually benefit from a 120 over a 96? I know this could be subjective, but very happy to hear opinions on this.

 

[forró]

I could be wrong, but I don't think a 120 bass would add much weight. Just the parts for the buttons. Aren't the extra rows just using the reeds that are already used by the other buttons? If you stick with 120 bass buttons, that would certainly narrow your choices. I've mostly seen 37/96, but I have seen them with 120, just not as often.

Scandalli and Brandoni both make them. I think they are heavier than 10KG though.

Scandalli Intense (37/120 LMMH II TC)

Details Like new, this Scandalli Intense features an olive wood veneer finish, double tone chamber, handmade reeds and Harmonik's AC 501-HQ microphones system. Specifications 17" keyboard (43 cm) 37 treble keys – 120 bass buttons11+Master – 7 bass registers4/5 sets of Handmade reedsTuning...

petosa.com

NEW Black Brandoni 130C Liberty Piano Accordion LMMH 37 120

Type: Piano Accordion Reeds: 4/5 LMMH Treble: 37 Keys, 17.5(44.5cm) Key to Key, 11 Registers Bass: 120 Buttons, 7 Registers Weight: 24lbs / 11kg Features: Super Durall reeds, treble range F to F, Professional internal Mics - Harmonik AC501HQ Installed

www.libertybellows.com

Pigini lists this as 8.5KG:

WING 374 CHERRYWOOD - Pigini Accordions

The cherry wood of the Wing 374 Cherrywood model offers a warm and deep sound that integrates with the unmistakable acoustics.

www.pigini.com

Here is one that has sold already:

3486 - Black Pigini Wing 374 Piano Accordion LMMM 37 120

Type: Piano Accordion Reeds: 4/5 LMMM Treble: 37 Keys, 17(43cm) Key to Key, 9 Registers Bass: 120 Bass Buttons, 3 Registers Weight: 21lbs / 9.5kg Features: Lightweight with full bass range

www.libertybellows.com

With the new information I have got now from this thread, I am very open to 37 / 96 now as well.
I was not hard set on 120, it was just a fear that I might be caught out.
I shall have a look at those models - thank you!

Oh, to answer your question...I play 96 bass instruments. I've never ran out of buttons. But, I don't play classical or music that is overly complex harmonically.

What kind of music styles do you mainly play? Do you have any videos on YT or elsewhere on public sites that I could watch?

 

[NickC]

With the new information I have got now from this thread, I am very open to 37 / 96 now as well.
I was not hard set on 120, it was just a fear that I might be caught out.
I shall have a look at those models - thank you!


What kind of music styles do you mainly play? Do you have any videos on YT or elsewhere on public sites that I could watch?

I play mostly Italian music, and not very well.
I have switched to CBA, but here is a video on a 37/96 Bugari PA:



Here is a similar model, but CBA (also 96 bass):

 

[Ventura]

back in the days of accordion factories out the wazoo
some things became "standard" and therefore common to
all/many accodions like shifts and placement of markings
and the bass strap adjustor because they rose to the top
as the best practice

some other stuff was partly because of one upsmanship
or keeping up with the competition, and we all know how
"Looks" were a big selling point to where they added duplicate
shifts to sucker buyers comparing advertizments without
reading the fine print

i would suggest the 120 bass standard became that, because back then,
if your accordions didn't "look" right they wouldn't sell

 

[forró]

I play mostly Italian music, and not very well.
I have switched to CBA, but here is a video on a 37/96 Bugari PA:



Here is a similar model, but CBA (also 96 bass):

Very cool.
I would say you play really well, certainly better than I do.
The Bugari sounds amazing in the video, can only imagine how much better in real life. Amazing.

That second tune has also given me a new tune to listen to.

Can I ask why you switched to CBA?
How was the transition?
Do you play the piano as well?

 

[NickC]

Thanks. I took piano courses in college and always had keyboards around. So, I had some background experience, but I didn't put in a whole lot of practice time on piano. When I started playing accordion, I wasn't even aware of all the different varieties.. After a while, most of the guys I listened to were playing the CBA. When I finally got one to try, it seemed more natural to me. I liked the arrangement of the buttons and liked that I could get a huge range in a smaller box. I guess it started as curiosity, and then became preference.
The switch wasn't too bad. It took a little while, and I can do some things better on PA and some on CBA. I can certainly read and improvise easier on PA. But, I feel like I am more comfortable playing more technical stuff on CBA. Technique wise, on CBA you can see my pinky hanging out the whole time and I'm thumb heavy on the right hand, so I would say my PA technique has a slight edge (though still not totally proper). But I'm working on it.

 

[LibraryJoe]

I'd love to hear your comments re switching to CBA as well. I made the switch back in early April and have been using Gallliano's book, a bit of Maugain, and Palmer-Hughes to learn. Back in the day I could play up to early PH Book 10, before hitting the wall. Six months into CBA I'm in mid Book 4. Playing both PA and CBA, but spending most of the time trying to get to a decent chromatic level.

 

[dak]

When I was still playing piano accordion, I've run out of 37 keys very occasionally but not run out of 96 bass buttons. Note that a lady-size 41/120 is smaller than a regular 37/96. That may also be an interesting option.

 

[dak]

back in the days of accordion factories out the wazoo
some things became "standard" and therefore common to
all/many accodions like shifts and placement of markings
and the bass strap adjustor because they rose to the top
as the best practice

some other stuff was partly because of one upsmanship
or keeping up with the competition,

Well, some stuff was simply because the one outlet in Castelfidardo that produces (say) couplers had some new idea on offer. It's a bit like the development of alternators for different car manufacturers: there wasn't a lot of independent evolution because they were all bought from Bosch anyway.