OMG, I gotta learn the Chords!

[Tom]

As you all know, Jerry constantly stresses fundamentals, and again this year I'm making a push to get them. Maybe I will succeed, maybe I won't.

Anyway, in starting to play with a bass and singer, it occurs that I need to comp in the right hand. Seems basic but I never learned it, playing almost entirely solo all my career.

In fact, I put together a small test, using an app, I presented myself with a random series of two measures of C, G, and F, at a moderate speed. I could not do it, but after an hour or so it started to take.

So I decided to work up to the basic (3 note) chords of the keys of C, G, and F to begin with, adding them slowly to the list of presented, random patterns. It's actually kind of fun.

Anyone else do this, or do you all know all your chords right off?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

As you all know, Jerry constantly stresses fundamentals, and again this year I'm making a push to get them. Maybe I will succeed, maybe I won't.

Anyway, in starting to play with a bass and singer, it occurs that I need to comp in the right hand. Seems basic but I never learned it, playing almost entirely solo all my career.

In fact, I put together a small test, using an app, I presented myself with a random series of two measures of C, G, and F, at a moderate speed. I could not do it, but after an hour or so it started to take.

So I decided to work up to the basic (3 note) chords of the keys of C, G, and F to begin with, adding them slowly to the list of presented, random patterns. It's actually kind of fun.

Anyone else do this, or do you all know all your chords right off?

It would be good to get as many chords as you can, in all their inversions, up and down the keyboard, block and broken (arpeggios.) start with major triads in C, F, and G, as you suggested. Then, when you’re comfortable with them, add D and B-Flat, then A and E-Flat, then E and A-Flat, then B and D-Flat and finally F-Sharp. Remember that all of the flat keys I mentioned have enharmonic names, as well, and that F-Sharp can also be called G-Flat. Also, remember that a lot of singers prefer E-Flat as aa key that they find comfortable. Once you have all of the major triads, you should try to do the minor triads in the same sequence, then augmented triads, major sixths, minor sixths, dominant sevenths, minor sevenths, major sevenths, then diminished sevenths. After all that, come extended chords, but that’s a whole other category with a few tricks thrown in. Now, I know this list is overwhelming, but it’s designed to give you a logical sequence to work with. Remember that comping, or even playing chords in a solo performance, can get a little boring. So you.might want to go to thirds, counter-melodies, rhythmic variations, arpeggios, etc., just to add a little interest and variety.

Good luck!

 

[Tom]

It would be good to get as many chords as you can, in all their inversions, up and down the keyboard, block and broken (arpeggios.) start with major triads in C, F, and G, as you suggested. Then, when you’re comfortable with them, add D and B-Flat, then A and E-Flat, then E and A-Flat, then B and D-Flat and finally F-Sharp. Remember that all of the flat keys I mentioned have enharmonic names, as well, and that F-Sharp can also be called G-Flat. Also, remember that a lot of singers prefer E-Flat as aa key that they find comfortable. Once you have all of the major triads, you should try to do the minor triads in the same sequence, then augmented triads, major sixths, minor sixths, dominant sevenths, minor sevenths, major sevenths, then diminished sevenths. After all that, come extended chords, but that’s a whole other category with a few tricks thrown in. Now, I know this list is overwhelming, but it’s designed to give you a logical sequence to work with. Remember that comping, or even playing chords in a solo performance, can get a little boring. So you.might want to go to thirds, counter-melodies, rhythmic variations, arpeggios, etc., just to add a little interest and variety.

Good luck!

Thanks Alan, good advice!

 

[losthobos]

I'd say this skill is more important than scales....
Most of the little jazz gigs I get I don't know the numbers and are just given a chord grille to work from...nothing more exciting than trying to pick out arpeggios/leading tones/inversions on the fly..
My advice would be try and keep the motion between chords as tight as possible..no large leaps..accentuate the thirds and sevenths over the root and fifths to let the colours shine through...keep the long arpeggios and vamps for when hanging on one chord...
And never be afraid to drop out altogether..

 

[JerryPH]

I'd say this skill is more important than scales....

For comping most definitely! For playing solo or lead... not as much as scales helping there.

I **clearly** remember the very first time I accompanied someone in a band, it took me about 1 minute to realize that all I was doing was regurgitating years of exercises... LOL. The challenge was not the chording, it was matching their erratic rhythm!

And never be afraid to drop out altogether..

Definitely, it makes them feel as if they are having a solo and make it obvious, like point at them or take one step to the side, to gesture they are taking a complete lead alone. Jump right back in after a few measure, though, if you want to continue the accompaniment.

 

[JeffJetton]

So I decided to work up to the basic (3 note) chords of the keys of C, G, and F to begin with, adding them slowly to the list of presented, random patterns. It's actually kind of fun.

Anyone else do this, or do you all know all your chords right off?

It was a very long time ago, but I think I eventually learned my chords by just playing (or trying to play) music that had those chords in them. In other words, I didn't just practice isolated exercises, but rather real-world music, tackling the new-to-me chords as they came along.

A lot of Beatles was involved, IIRC.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the tips guys!

 

[NickC]

Another 30 day challenge? I'd jump in.
I can't do this on the accordion (yet?) but,I would say that, in addition to chords, learning common chord progressions would be helpful.

 

[JerryPH]

Another 30 day challenge? I'd jump in.
I can't do this on the accordion (yet?) but,I would say that, in addition to chords, learning common chord progressions would be helpful.

I kinda like Jeff's idea to not make it as potentially boring, because not everyone is like me and can sit down to do 2 hours of exercises and actually enjoy it... lol. Maybe get something like 4 songs from YouTube here (1 per week?), that start easy and are progressively harder and "chord-along" with it. In your thread specific to this, those who want to participate can post videos of them accompanying the chosen pieces.

 

[Tom]

I kinda like Jeff's idea to not make it as potentially boring, because not everyone is like me and can sit down to do 2 hours of exercises and actually enjoy it... lol. Maybe get something like 4 songs from YouTube here (1 per week?), that start easy and are progressively harder and "chord-along" with it. In your thread specific to this, those who want to participate can post videos of them accompanying the chosen pieces.

I like this idea of learning the chords while playing with the video. There are many youtube videos with chords and lyrics. Anyone want to try, and have suggestions?

 

[JerryPH]

I like this idea of learning the chords while playing with the video. There are many youtube videos with chords and lyrics. Anyone want to try, and have suggestions?

Well if you want to, we could have a couple people just record something, post it here and play along, so to speak. A polka, waltz, tango and maybe finish off with a swing that changes key signature for the ending one would not be hard to pull off.

 

[colinm]

I have been trying to learn chords for 2 years now, please count me in.

 

[Tom]

Well if you want to, we could have a couple people just record something, post it here and play along, so to speak. A polka, waltz, tango and maybe finish off with a swing that changes key signature for the ending one would not be hard to pull off.

Well, I know someone who is really good at making videos, both musical and educational....

 

[JerryPH]

Well, I know someone who is really good at making videos, both musical and educational....

Sheesh, I've touched the accordion for about 45 minutes between June 2022 and today... but let me see what I can do (I'll have keep the songs a bit easier, and use sheet music, I suppose... but thats not important in this case).

 

[Alan Sharkis]

There’s a Youtube video that would be very helpful in reading and interpreting chord symbols — the kind you’d see in fakebooks and jazz sheets — that would also be of help. Darn! If I was at my computer instead of with my phone, I’d include the url, but I’m lazy today, so here’s the title of the video:

“Every Possible Chord Symbol Explained”

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything as thorough on this topic as this video. Download it, save it, watch it at your leisure; multiple times if necessary.

I apologize for not just posting the url.

 

[saundersbp]

If you don't know what chords are this is a basic read https://www.mymusictheory.com/for-students/grade-5/56-10-describing-chords

 

[Pipemajor]

There’s a Youtube video that would be very helpful in reading and interpreting chord symbols — the kind you’d see in fakebooks and jazz sheets — that would also be of help. Darn! If I was at my computer instead of with my phone, I’d include the url, but I’m lazy today, so here’s the title of the video:

“Every Possible Chord Symbol Explained”

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything as thorough on this topic as this video. Download it, save it, watch it at your leisure; multiple times if necessary.

I apologize for not just posting the url.

Great resource, Alan, thanks

 

[Ventura]

I need to comp in the right hand.

hey Tom,

first off, pull up a fat Fender Rhodes patch on your FR4

this is the quintissential comping sound and your brain
has probably absorbed many examples from Pop Music and
Concerts over the decades

having this sound and touch sensitive softness >< power under your fingers
for now may make it easier to get up to speed mentally

next, forget rules.. just find some old records of Art Van Damme backing up
a Vocalist like Jo Stafford.. no-one can teach you better by example than him

lastly, if you have time, do the old trick i have mentioned of taking the sheel
music and hand-writing in pencil full chords for every single note of the song..
this gives you all the possibilities, AND as the melody line ascends and descends
closely in places it will actually lead you into the complex chord variations

having ALL the possible notes to comp with, and practicing grabbing/playing them all
(as ridiculous as that sounds) then allows you to start eliminating (erasing) some and
just leaving the best ones for the purpose

 

[Tom]

hey Tom,

first off, pull up a fat Fender Rhodes patch on your FR4

this is the quintissential comping sound and your brain
has probably absorbed many examples from Pop Music and
Concerts over the decades

having this sound and touch sensitive softness >< power under your fingers
for now may make it easier to get up to speed mentally

next, forget rules.. just find some old records of Art Van Damme backing up
a Vocalist like Jo Stafford.. no-one can teach you better by example than him

lastly, if you have time, do the old trick i have mentioned of taking the sheel
music and hand-writing in pencil full chords for every single note of the song..
this gives you all the possibilities, AND as the melody line ascends and descends
closely in places it will actually lead you into the complex chord variations

having ALL the possible notes to comp with, and practicing grabbing/playing them all
(as ridiculous as that sounds) then allows you to start eliminating (erasing) some and
just leaving the best ones for the purpose

Thanks for the advice Ventura! I'm not sure how to get the "fat Fender Rhodes." Is that a stock sound or from a computer or arranger sound set? I have the Dale Mathis sounds.

I like your idea of writing in the chord notes for each note. I pretty much just try to use chord tones of the "active" chord below the given note. Sometimes I try a different note, for example, if I encounter an A over a G7 chord I might like an E under it. Sometimes I overdo it. Like it sounds good as I play it, but if I record it, there's too much going on so less is more.

 

[Ventura]

i was under the impression that, pretty much all the
General MIDI soundset is now accessible using the editor ?

at the least, the FR7x introduced an ability to access a larger
subset of GM sounds, swapping them into sets as replacements
for the factory selected orchestral presets..
Rhodes and Vibes were part of that

(and then we hacked that so any of those sounds could be
ported into the FR3x using a renamed but correctly mapped and saved set)

since the first FR7 all the GM sounds have actually been inside, on the chipset,
just not able to be accessed through the FR interface Roland allowed us to have

but i do not have a 4x personally to check on current access

the Roland Vibes on the chipset is also a good comping tone..
that and the Rhodes are great as left hand chord tones too
when you use upright Bass and don't want an abrupt chord sound