Which Internal Mic System?

[BarrySmith]

I need to install an internal mic system for my full size Tonaveri. The Sennheiser MT-04N has been recommended to me. However, I am also aware of the FRM 5-1S, Accoustas AMx11HD and Microvox systems. I am not sure which way to go. Which gives the most value for the $? And are there other options that are better?

 

[JerryPH]

You also forgot the Limex variant, which is a sky-high $1300US plus installation.

Honeestly, it depends on several factors:

- your budget
- your expectations
- your intended use (personal, professional, pro recording)

I plan to one day replace the setup in my Hohner Morino VI N, and I think that I am leaning more towards the HATools version that Pigini.de is advertising (http://www.pigini.homepage.t-online.de/Akkordeonmikro.htm ).

They start at around 400 Euro plus additional options, so not too bad considering the quality... but this is a self-install kit. Some people are comfortable doing the install (its not very hard), while some might need to add the cost of having someone install it for them.

Here is a video of the install process:

 

[fjsys]

I use two systems on two different accordions. one of them is the mt04 and the other is a mic7 kit from:
http://www.accordionfactory.com/Pro...dsfcatid/accordion-accessories-8/Default.aspx

I like them both, the mt system is easier b/c there is only one out channel, but the mic7 is better for when you want to control the left/right output. (Or if you want to use guitar pedals on the right)

Both are working well for me.
Ben

 

[debra]

I need to install an internal mic system for my full size Tonaveri. The Sennheiser MT-04N has been recommended to me. However, I am also aware of the FRM 5-1S, Accoustas AMx11HD and Microvox systems. I am not sure which way to go. Which gives the most value for the $? And are there other options that are better?

From these I only know the Sennheiser MT-04N and the Microvox (420).
The Sennheiser is mounted just under the grille and has 3 microphones. My experience with it is that you can hear a difference in volume between the notes close to one of the mics and the notes further away from the mics. Other than that the sound quality is good.
The Microvox 420 is mounted on the outside of the grille (or further away if you want, using a home-made bracket). It has 4 Sennheiser mics for a more even spread of sound pickup. It does not require anything to be built into the accordion but it then also does not qualify as being an internal mic system. But I definitely prefer it over the Sennheiser MT-04N.

 

[BarrySmith]

Thanks guys, that is helpful!

 

[JerryPH]

The system I mention above is 10 Senheiser mics on the right hand and 3 for the left. My idea is that I would install 10 mics on each side for most even sound possible. I also would want to use internal hidden volume controls to balance the sound and to keep it looking factory stock. It may be worth the extra money and install effort on a higher end instrument. I think my accordion deserves it. Installing something cheap for me is like placing bicycle tires on a Rolls Royce... lol

 

[debra]

The system I mention above is 10 Senheiser mics on the right hand and 3 for the left. My idea is that I would install 10 mics on each side for most even sound possible. I also would want to use internal hidden volume controls to balance the sound and to keep it looking factory stock. It may be worth the extra money and install effort on a higher end instrument. I think my accordion deserves it. Installing something cheap for me is like placing bicycle tires on a Rolls Royce... lol

Wow, 10 mics on the right hand side... I can understand it because this system has to go under the grille and the closer you go to the notes the more mics you need for an evenly spread pickup. The cassotto also complicates things, otherwise 5 mics would probably have been enough. My setup with the Microvox with 4 mics mounted on a bracket adds so much distance that the 4 mics are enough for a very evenly spread sound pickup.
As for the lefthand side you do not need 10 mics at all and there is probably no room to install them anyway. The standard 3 mics on the Pigini system are more than enough. The case that holds the bass mechanism already spreads the sound quite evenly and there is no cassotto to deal with either. The Microvox system uses only one mic for the lefthand side and even then I have not noticed any unevenness in volume. But I can imagine that 3 mics may still be a bit better. (If desired one could even mount a Microvox 420 bar with 4 mics if there is room.
Note that all these systems use similar if not the same Sennheiser microphones. These elements are relatively inexpensive (making the pigini system with 13 mics not over 4 times as expensive as a Microvox with 4 mics). The systems with more microphones therefore wont be producing much nicer sound. It is all about an even spread in sound pickup. The sound quality when you use microphones and amplification is at least 90% dependent on the amplifier-speaker combination, not on the microphones.

 

[JerryPH]

Ultimately, it is the quality of the mics and their spread that defines the sound. No amp/mixer/speaker combination can make mics that make your accordion sound thin and tiinny very good. You want mics that have the proper dynamics, full low end, rich middle and clean highs. The second most important trait is as you mention, an even spread of sound. In my case, with the Free Bass, I was thinking that 10 is better than 3, without any real proof, of course, just thinking that the even spread is much better in 10 than 3 and my sound is spread out in over as wide an area on the left hand as is the right. I have no idea or proof if this is fact or not

A local accordion vendor called me here saying that Sennheiser stopped making a specific mic that was one of their best mics for the accordion application, and they are now importing an equivalent replacement from China that has the same quality and acoustic traits, but the landed price was just a touch higher. Damn, I wish I could recall the brand name he mentioned, it really bothers me that I cannot recall that.

My opinion on external mics... not my favorite for a couple of reasons:
- easy to break off
- they ruin the look of the front of the accordion
- makes them that much easier to pick up external sounds/voices
- more prone to feedback easier than mics hidden away

Again, just a bunch of opinions.

 

[debra]

Ultimately, it is the quality of the mics and their spread that defines the sound. No amp/mixer/speaker combination can make mics that make your accordion sound thin and tiinny very good. ...

RIght, but as the different systems seem to be using the same or similar types of mics the spread is likely to be the main difference.
On the bass side you do not need that many mics because 1) the bass enclosure spreads the sound quite evenly (very different from the open grille on the treble side) and 2) there is no cassotto that causes the sets of reeds in and out of cassotto to need to be picked up separately.
I have no experience with the 10 mic system, only the 3 mic built-in system (for treble) and the 4 mic Microvox system. Your comments are all very valid: the mic assembly can break or fall off, ruins the looks of the accordion and can more easily pick up external sounds and generate feedback. Yet, I dont find this to be too bad with the Microvox system, and it offers great sound for a somewhat more reasonable price than some other systems.
I have heard many amplified accordions and I have also tried different amplifiers/speaker combinations and certainly once you have good mics the speaker system makes all the difference. After many experiments I am now completely committed to using the Bose L1 model II with Tonematch engine. Very powerful, can be positioned behind you and sounds the most natural (so natural that people have asked me whether we were using any amplification at all, despite the obvious increase of volume).