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where do i go now?

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accordian

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hello. so while asking about the bass
I was suggested amelie and gave it
a shot and can play it. what would
you say is a good suggestion or tips.
i'm now starting the monkey island theme
and will try to do that as I can play the first
couple of bars.

I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isn't the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I don't think
I am but I could be wrong

thanks
 
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
...
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong
...

Ah, you seem to be reaching that point where you can play notes and discover (or are told) that this is not the same as making music.
Our language isnt exactly helping. You use sheet music but the Germans get it right with Notenschrift. On the paper we write down the notes, the rhythm, accents, slurs, dynamics, but there is no notation for the music. You need to learn to feel the music. I have experienced several times over the past decades that some people do not understand that playing what is on the sheet music and playing the music are different. They will play what is on paper, and they also do not hear the difference between playing the notes and playing the music. And when I tried to explain how it should be played they ask but why dont you write *that* down then. Sorry, no can do.
Fortunately more people can hear the difference between notes and music and thats the first step towards learning to actually play the music.
 
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
... I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

Well, you certainly arent a master of the accordion, so you have about 20 years of hard growth to do... how is that for a start? You can only play a few basic songs... where do YOU think you need to go?? Where do you want to go???

My recommendations?

1 - Change your attitude. You ask for help, but never take it. Stop asking for help or start accepting the help, and SHOW that you are doing the offered suggestions.

2 - Stop with the excuses. excuses are just tools of incompetence

3 - Stop looking for short cuts. Accordions, and music for that matter, have been around for a very long time. If there were any useful short cuts, millions of people would have taken advantage of them and this info would be common knowledge. There are no shortcuts, no replacement for hard work.

Several have mentioned that leaning to play an instrument is not an endeavor of months, but decades. Keep playing and see where you are in 10 or 20 years. Want to grow faster? Get a real life teacher, and follow their guidance.

Have you noticed the pattern yet? This is something that you keep doing over and over. I bet that your next post will be some form of excuse dismissing the suggestions that you are asking for. Most likely becuase it might be a bit too hard to actually do... but what do I know. :)

Im sorry for being so hard, but sincerely, how many more times do you plan or repeating this cycle?
 
JerryPH post_id=56501 time=1521984837 user_id=1475 said:
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
... I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

Well, you certainly arent a master of the accordion, so you have about 20 years of hard growth to do... how is that for a start? You can only play a few basic songs... where do YOU think you need to go?? Where do you want to go???

My recommendations?

1 - Change your attitude. You ask for help, but never take it. Stop asking for help or start accepting the help, and SHOW that you are doing the offered suggestions.

2 - Stop with the excuses. excuses are just tools of incompetence

3 - Stop looking for short cuts. Accordions, and music for that matter, have been around for a very long time. If there were any useful short cuts, millions of people would have taken advantage of them and this info would be common knowledge. There are no shortcuts, no replacement for hard work.

Several have mentioned that leaning to play an instrument is not an endeavor of months, but decades. Keep playing and see where you are in 10 or 20 years. Want to grow faster? Get a real life teacher, and follow their guidance.

Have you noticed the pattern yet? This is something that you keep doing over and over. I bet that your next post will be some form of excuse dismissing the suggestions that you are asking for. Most likely becuase it might be a bit too hard to actually do... but what do I know. :)

Im sorry for being so hard, but sincerely, how many more times do you plan or repeating this cycle?

That is quite ok. And i’d Like
To say (just because everyone
Says it) I’m taking the advice given
And using it It just the way that some
Stuff works confuses me hence the
Bass questions and muscle memory.
( sry if people think I’m not listening
To advice)

As for where do I want to end up well
I get that this sort of thing takes a
While. But I would like to get proficient
Enough that if I want to learn a song
Then the bass won’t be too much of a
Problem
 
@accordion

I have been reading your posts over the past few months with much interest but even more incredulity.

Continually posing questions to the forum is like trying to learn the accordion by correspondence course. It can be done up to a point but the accordion is a practical instrument and if you don’t know “where to go now” or have the ability to improve on your own, you obviously need the input of a good teacher.

I would say that despite your having been given the benefit of a wealth of advice and knowledge from some very capable and knowledgable forum members you are now asking the question about what to do next. In my opinion I believe that proves the requirement for the intervention of a teacher.

You are obviously very enthusiastic about the accordion and I feel, in my humble opinion (and it is humble) you owe it to yourself to invest in a few lessons (not via Skype etc) but in a face to face environment.

You would then get instant feedback from the teacher as to where you can improve etc., whether it’s the Bass or your timing or anything else.

But I feel that you have been told all this before.

Good luck
 
Reedwarbler post_id=56504 time=1521987115 user_id=84 said:
@accordion

I have been reading your posts over the past few months with much interest but even more incredulity.

Continually posing questions to the forum is like trying to learn the accordion by correspondence course. It can be done up to a point but the accordion is a practical instrument and if you don’t know “where to go now” or have the ability to improve on your own, you obviously need the input of a good teacher.

I would say that despite your having been given the benefit of a wealth of advice and knowledge from some very capable and knowledgable forum members you are now asking the question about what to do next. In my opinion I believe that proves the requirement for the intervention of a teacher.

You are obviously very enthusiastic about the accordion and I feel, in my humble opinion (and it is humble) you owe it to yourself to invest in a few lessons (not via Skype etc) but in a face to face environment.

You would then get instant feedback from the teacher as to where you can improve etc., whether it’s the Bass or your timing or anything else.

But I feel that you have been told all this before.

Good luck

thanks
 
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

thanks

Just one suggestion:

Pick one of the pieces you can play, a dance tune, not the hardest.

Find a youtube video that makes you want to dance to it.

Imitate that version. Having somebody to show you specifics would be useful.

Also, (OK, two suggestions) listen to a lot of good music.
 
xocd post_id=56506 time=1521995520 user_id=2246 said:
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

thanks

Just one suggestion:

Pick one of the pieces you can play, a dance tune, not the hardest.

Find a youtube video that makes you want to dance to it.

Imitate that version. Having somebody to show you specifics would be useful.

Also, (OK, two suggestions) listen to a lot of good music.

thats a good idea actually
 
Reedwarbler post_id=56504 time=1521987115 user_id=84 said:
I have been reading your posts over the past few months with much interest but even more incredulity.

Me too ...

Look heres a video about how to swim without water, I know its not accordion related, but it may be something able to let us feel about the difference between playing the notes and playing music.



Of course, ymmv.
 
xocd post_id=56506 time=1521995520 user_id=2246 said:
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

thanks

Just one suggestion:

Pick one of the pieces you can play, a dance tune, not the hardest.

Find a youtube video that makes you want to dance to it.

Imitate that version. Having somebody to show you specifics would be useful.

Also, (OK, two suggestions) listen to a lot of good music.

thats a good idea actually[/quote]
Accordian , you say in your first post you do not think everything is out of time.
You should aim for nothing to be out of time, no incorrect notes, no wrong notes caught in error.
And at the same time you should aim to operate the bellows to highlight specific notes or phrases so that your song sounds musical.
Then you should have a look at Alex Goviers website for tips on how to make the bass line of your song sound interesting to your audience
If you can do this in less than 5 years then you will be doing well
Hope this gives you something to aim for.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
colinm post_id=56511 time=1522008467 user_id=134 said:
Accordian , you say in your first post you do not think everything is out of time.
You should aim for nothing to be out of time, no incorrect notes, no wrong notes caught in error.
I think I am responsible for the post he referred to. The limited amount I listened to (I dont get paid for this) did not contain out of time or incorrect notes that I remember. However, it was basically just rattled off. Maybe Im talking out of envy since I have to work a long time to get slow pieces work (and I have to restart work several times). But from an individual interpretation I expect more than getting all the notes at high speed.

One good advice to incorporate is that a melody line should appear like being sung. You need to practice at low speed to even work on that aspect mostly concerning articulation.
And at the same time you should aim to operate the bellows to highlight specific notes or phrases so that your song sounds musical.
Then you should have a look at Alex Goviers website for tips on how to make the bass line of your song sound interesting to your audience
If you can do this in less than 5 years then you will be doing well
Hope this gives you something to aim for.
Thats a technical way of putting it, but yes. Maybe this will be more easy to work with by working on inherently slow pieces (which may be more helpful than working on slowed-down pieces because there is less of a temptation to get up to speed soon for pieces intended to stay slow).
 
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

Or, as the saying goes, the right note played at the wrong time is still a wrong note. :D

I think youre on the right track if only because youre enthusiastic about playing and learning. I can tell you really want to improve, and thats a great attitude to have.

My advice, for what its worth:

Start to build a repertoire of songs that you can consistently play well. These might be simple songs, and they might not be the songs you have the strongest desire to play, but they will lay a foundation that you can continually build upon. Im thinking about tunes like Village Polka, Come to the Sea, Danube Waves, Chicken Dance, etc.

As I mentioned before, getting a series of method books, like Palmer-Hughes, will help you a lot here.

The other thing I would strongly recommend doing is starting to figure out songs by ear. This actually ties in to the above advice quite well. So instead of Googling for the sheet music for Chicken Dance, for example, maybe just search YouTube for some versions of the song and try to pick it out yourself from there. Pause and rewind a lot. Keep at it a measure at a time.

It takes a while at first, but you get faster the more you do it. Again, these should be basic songs at first. Dont try to figure out Donna Lee right off the bat. Any of the above songs would work. Or things like Never on a Sunday, Ach, du Lieber Augustin, etc. Maybe Country Roads at some point.
 
Agreed with above. Your just starting. You learn some songs to get to know your intrument and when you do you can play with feeling. Im not a great accordionist but it took me about 3 years to be able to express myself on accordion for 3 points: get to know the treble (easier cause you can look), bassside (still make mistakes with big jumps, but easily corrcted, even with 3 years of extensive playing), getting to know thebellows, and thats the hardest part to me in the whole instrument. So as many said, be patient and practice alot.
 
JeffJetton post_id=56528 time=1522078477 user_id=1774 said:
accordian post_id=56498 time=1521981771 user_id=2458 said:
I also showed my youtube channel and
heard people saying that playing the
correct notes isnt the same as music
which I spose is correct if everything is
out of time. but personally I dont think
I am but I could be wrong

Or, as the saying goes, the right note played at the wrong time is still a wrong note. :D

I think youre on the right track if only because youre enthusiastic about playing and learning. I can tell you really want to improve, and thats a great attitude to have.

My advice, for what its worth:

Start to build a repertoire of songs that you can consistently play well. These might be simple songs, and they might not be the songs you have the strongest desire to play, but they will lay a foundation that you can continually build upon. Im thinking about tunes like Village Polka, Come to the Sea, Danube Waves, Chicken Dance, etc.

As I mentioned before, getting a series of method books, like Palmer-Hughes, will help you a lot here.

The other thing I would strongly recommend doing is starting to figure out songs by ear. This actually ties in to the above advice quite well. So instead of Googling for the sheet music for Chicken Dance, for example, maybe just search YouTube for some versions of the song and try to pick it out yourself from there. Pause and rewind a lot. Keep at it a measure at a time.

It takes a while at first, but you get faster the more you do it. Again, these should be basic songs at first. Dont try to figure out Donna Lee right off the bat. Any of the above songs would work. Or things like Never on a Sunday, Ach, du Lieber Augustin, etc. Maybe Country Roads at some point.

thanks.

I tried country roads and
got ok at it as i found i didnt
have to slide to get to the em
and have to say its a really fun
song same for chicken dance.

I recently decided to play music
and write it down in a graph and
it shows bass jumps from here I
can practice all the different jumps.
still gonna have a look at the other
songs you suggested though.

like said though I think I need to buy
some books.

I think my biggest problem so far
is being over analytical however
I cant help it.

this is why I ask so much about muscle
memory as I cant seem to get a clear
answer.

thanks for your feedback
 
accordian post_id=56559 time=1522187438 user_id=2458 said:
I think my biggest problem so far
is being over analytical however
I cant help it.


Yes, Yes, Yes. You have seemingly hit your major problem right on the head. Ive read through most of your previous posts, even commented on some, and that is your problem. It has nothing to do with playing the accordion Others have made that same observation and it has gone completely over you. You are overanalyzing this to death. If you would spend a fraction of the time you are analyzing this into just practicing the accordion, you would be much further ahead.

However, at this point I dont think you goal has anything to do with playing the accordion. You sir, are a troll
 
accordian post_id=56559 time=1522187438 user_id=2458 said:
/quote]


this is why I ask so much about muscle
memory as I cant seem to get a clear
answer.

thanks for your feedback

What exactly isn’t clear to you with the answers you have been getting?
It’s been explained many times on this Forum in relation to your and other Forum members posts.
Plus, there is a wealth of explanations and information on the internet.
What additional information do you need to make it clearer?

Being clear about this yourself may enable others to provide you with an explanation that you will ultimately understand

regards
 
Reedwarbler post_id=56573 time=1522231914 user_id=84 said:
accordian post_id=56559 time=1522187438 user_id=2458 said:
/quote]


this is why I ask so much about muscle
memory as I cant seem to get a clear
answer.

thanks for your feedback

What exactly isn’t clear to you with the answers you have been getting?
It’s been explained many times on this Forum in relation to your and other Forum members posts.
Plus, there is a wealth of explanations and information on the internet.
What additional information do you need to make it clearer?

Being clear about this yourself may enable others to provide you with an explanation that you will ultimately understand

regards

well as said im very
analytical and cant understand
how everything links together
so far what I understand is muslce
memory is memory gathered over
repetitions and is what helps you remember
to do bass jumps and all sorts of things.
but what I dont yet understand is how
I use it as I mean I could practice D to e#
for and hour and get it the jump correctly again and again
but when I come back to do it the next day
I cant consciously remember how to do it
when I say consciously I mean like move my hand
up a bit or down a bit, the angle etc. and will often
mess up. as said im not really sure how to use
it. its like do I just play the song with no effort to do it correctly and
the muscle memory works
automatically or do I have to sorta try to get it correctly and the muscle
memory comes into play. I have tried just playing it
with effort to play it correctly and consciously rather than
just doing it with no effort to do itcorrectly and sometimes this works and I will play the
song 100% correctly others 10% and the same for just playing it. with no effort

if ya could answer this it would really help. thanks
I have no problem with getting a song wrong.
but if im getting it wrong because I dont understand
how to use my muscle memory then thats whats annoying
as this is why Im so analytical and focus on the bass so much.

thanks for the help.
 
Your description of muscle memory is succinct and basically correct.

If you find that the next day you can’t remember how to do it, then you have to practice the jump or whatever else you are practicing, again and again until you do remember.

You say that you are not sure how to use it. I don’t fully understand what you mean that that. It may mean you have just forgotten what you practiced the day before, in which case you need to repeat the process and reinforce the memory.

It’s like learning multiplication tables when at school. The student has to keep repeating the tables until they are committed to memory.

Some people need to practice more than others in order to remember how to do things. Everybody is different!

If you can already play some things already from memory then you have some degree of muscle memory.
 
Reedwarbler post_id=56575 time=1522236268 user_id=84 said:
Your description of muscle memory is succinct and basically correct.

If you find that the next day you can’t remember how to do it, then you have to practice the jump or whatever else you are practicing, again and again until you do remember.

You say that you are not sure how to use it. I don’t fully understand what you mean that that. It may mean you have just forgotten what you practiced the day before, in which case you need to repeat the process and reinforce the memory.

It’s like learning multiplication tables when at school. The student has to keep repeating the tables until they are committed to memory.

Some people need to practice more than others in order to remember how to do things. Everybody is different!

If you can already play some things already from memory then you have some degree of muscle memory.

when I said im not sure how to use it
do I play it with effort to get it correct
or do I just play it without any effort to get
it correct and the muscle memory kicks in.

as for when I say I cant remember how
to do it I mean like I can remember that
eg. c to d is a small bass jump up but I cant
remember the feeling if that makes any sense.

like said if I look in a mirror and practice a bass
jump without any conscious effort eg. up a bit etc
and play the jump slowly and then just repeat it
and speed it up then I can do it but I have no idea
how im doing it and so cant remember the next day.

what do you do?

thanks for answering this I have been looking for ages
for an answer
 
These are just a few of my (rather jumbled) thoughts on the subject.

Initially you have to make an effort to remember what to play. You have to engage your brain at numerous occasions during playing. The more proficient you get the more automatic it becomes, rather like driving or any other activity.

You need to know your way around the bass side of the accordion.
You need to know the positions and relative positions of the notes. You can also make use of the markings on the Ab B and E buttons when moving around the bass side.

There is a judgement call to be made about how far you need to move your finger/wrist in order to make a particular jump.
It’s the same as playing the treble keyboard, you need to know where the notes you want to play are located. You may do this by looking at the keyboard to begin with and then with practice you can find you way around without looking
The feeling of the distance covered for bass jumps comes with practice as does playing on the treble side of the keyboard.

If you are saying you can’t remember what it feels like then you need more practice. It’s also possible you are not thinking enough about what are doing to begin with, in order to learn, and so are not committing that feeling to memory.

In my opinion I would get rid of the mirror when practicing the bass. I feel it only serves to confuse. Just learn the bass as you would actually play the accordion.

As for bass jumps. I personally do not practice them in isolation. To me they are part of a tune and I practice them as such. Sometimes the fingering has to be altered in order to play the notes following the jump, so that forms part of my practice.
But as I have said, everyone is different.

If I may use another (simplified) analogy, something that applies to most of us.
When a baby learns to walk it doesn’t have the luxury of being able to enter into a deep philosophical discussion about whether it needs to put its left foot in front of the right or vice versa or even think about doing it. It will probably make that decision by itself with a little help from its parents and then if it falls over it will adjust how it walks. It will continue to practice this every day. It instinctively knows that falling over is not the desired result

As the child grows up it just walks without consciously thinking about what it’s doing.

I still feel you owe it to yourself to invest in a least a few lessons

But if I may quote another forum member who awhile back ended his post with some excellent advice

“Just do it!”

regards
 
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