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What a tone... Double bassoon in cassotto

debra

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Not sure what you are referring to because in that clip I do not hear anything I recognize as a double bassoon in cassotto. (The bassoon is used in the middle of the clip but it does not sound like double bassoon in cassotto.)
 

losthobos

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Got me confused now Paul.... Cavagnolo made this mod for Eric Bouvelle with 2 bassoon in cassotto, apparantly a big bassoon and a small bassooon?? Gotta love google translate, and the whole uni que selling point was the ultra smooth jazzy tone...
Perhaps my ears think they're seeing the emporers new clothes... I thought was lovely tone... One has come up second hand and id half considered... Gonna sit down a long while with Piermaria and try to consider if it is a leap on in tone oor just a sideways stumble... 
Thanks for your input... Appreciated
 

debra

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Well, I followed links and checked what exists on the Cavagnolo site. There is no 4 row 96 bass Cavagnolo with double bassoon in cassotto that I can find. Cavagnolo does have accordions with double bassoon inn cassotto but they are all 5 row 120 bass instruments as far as I can tell. So the one demonstrated in the video is very likely not one with double bassoon in cassotto unless it is an unlisted model.
 
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maugein96

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debra pid=72313 dateline=1590328707 said:
Well, I  followed links and checked what exists on the Cavagnolo site. There is no 4 row 96 bass Cavagnolo with double bassoon in cassotto that I can find. Cavagnolo does have accordions with double bassoon inn cassotto but they are all 5 row 120 bass instruments as far as I can tell. So the one demonstrated in the video is very likely not one with double bassoon in cassotto unless it is an unlisted model.

Paul,

The model in Terrys clip is the Cavagnolo Manouche, which is LMM with no cassotto. 

I believe the instrument he is talking about is this one:-

https://cavagnolo.com/accordeon/compact-super/

I think Cavagnolo can make that instrument with two banks of bassoon reeds, one of which is an octave lower than the other, although it does appear to be a special order.
 

debra

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maugein96 pid=72322 dateline=1590393865 said:
The model in Terrys clip is the Cavagnolo Manouche, which is LMM with no cassotto. 

I believe the instrument he is talking about is this one:-

https://cavagnolo.com/accordeon/compact-super/

I think Cavagnolo can make that instrument with two banks of bassoon reeds, one of which is an octave lower than the other, although it does appear to be a special order.

The original message only mentioned double bassoon in the title and then just had a clip of an accordion which is clearly not the double bassoon accordion.
I dont believe the double bassoon in the compact-super has one an octave lower than the other. I have seen and heard an accordion that was LLMM but then with LM in cassotto and the other L and M outside the cassotto. The design with both bassoons in cassotto sounds like a better idea. It is quite hard to get an L inside and another L outside cassotto to have absolutely no tremolo. (Likewise that is hard with M reeds, one inside and one outside of cassotto. Almost always there will be a bit of tremolo depending on the sound volume because the frequency shift with volume is different.)
 
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maugein96

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debra pid=72328 dateline=1590398102 said:
maugein96 pid=72322 dateline=1590393865 said:
The model in Terrys clip is the Cavagnolo Manouche, which is LMM with no cassotto. 

I believe the instrument he is talking about is this one:-

https://cavagnolo.com/accordeon/compact-super/

I think Cavagnolo can make that instrument with two banks of bassoon reeds, one of which is an octave lower than the other, although it does appear to be a special order.

The original message only mentioned double bassoon in the title and then just had a clip of an accordion which is clearly not the double bassoon accordion.
I dont believe the double bassoon in the compact-super has one an octave lower than the other. I have seen and heard an accordion that was LLMM but then with LM in cassotto and the other L and M outside the cassotto. The design with both bassoons in cassotto sounds like a better idea. It is quite hard to get an L inside and another L outside cassotto to have absolutely no tremolo. (Likewise that is hard with M reeds, one inside and one outside of cassotto. Almost always there will be a bit of tremolo depending on the sound volume because the frequency shift with volume is different.)


Hi Paul,

Ive never really kept up with what Cavagnolo have turned out over the last 20 years or so, as there have been so many different variations. 108 bass seems to be yet another fairly recent innovation, and they appear to have put a lot of money into their Digital instruments. 

They went through a bad patch of quality control in the mid 80s, and I bought a brand new Bal Musette model in 1986 which I found a bit awkward to play. Three identical instruments had been bought as a job lot by a Scottish dealer and put into stock. That was very unusual, as most Cavagnolos for UK were by special order only. Turned out that row 4 was 4mm too close to row 3, but I never found that out until I passed it on to a guy who repairs and renovates accordions in Scotland. He corrected the alignment and his daughter now plays it. 

He also converted the coupler selectors to allow M,MM, and MMM, when the originals only allowed M and MMM. I sort of went off the make after that experience. With hindsight it looked as though Cavagnolo had dumped some second quality instruments on the UK market, perhaps with the presumption that nobody would notice. That particular instrument I had went on develop various other faults, to the point where I resolved to leave the make well alone.

However, a couple of years back I bought an old Vedette 5, LMM with L in a tone chamber, and you wouldnt believe it had been made by the same manufacturer. It was from around 1978, when the make still appeared to be well respected. Dont know what they are like these days at all.
 

Dingo40

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John,

Interesting story. 

It just goes to show that buying brand new doesn't necessarily mean no hassles.

Just like with anything, there's always the possibility of a lemon in the pile: new or used! :p

I wonder if there's an example of this double bassoon reed instrument being played on YouTube? :huh:

Wasn't one of Myron Floren's instruments constructed with double bassoon reeds? :huh:
 
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maugein96

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Dingo40 pid=72346 dateline=1590438379 said:
John,

Interesting story. 

It just goes to show that buying brand new doesnt necessarily mean no hassles.

Just like with anything, theres always the possibility of a lemon in the pile: new or used! :p

I wonder if theres an example of this double bassoon reed instrument being played on YouTube? :huh:

Wasnt one of Myron Florens instruments constructed with double bassoon reeds? :huh:

Dingo,

There are quite a few clips, but I dont have the ear to detect the basson grave, especially when there is a lot of left hand bass work on the go. 

I read an article about Cavagnolo double bassoon some years ago in the French music press. Other makers also turn them out, but I dont think in the same amount of variants as Cavagnolo. 

Here is a French spec Mengascini with double bassoon reeds that I posted before. Paul De Bra was able to detect an occasional tremolo effect on certain notes between the two bassoon reed banks, but I was none the wiser. With all four reed banks switched on the high M is the only tremolo I can pick out. 

If I was ever to buy a new accordion again, then it would probably be a French spec Mengascini, whether it was out of tune or not. I used to play in a rock band so the finer points of tuning never featured much in our conversations, unless somebody was way out. Thats probably why a basson grave would be a waste of money for me. 

 

Dingo40

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John,
You're quite right: the double bassoon effect seems quite mild, not  at all like the deep throaty, raspy bases on the Russian Jupiter bandoneons . I wouldn't even have been aware of the existence of these. :-/

Thanks for posting: interesting! :)
 
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maugein96

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Dingo40 said:
John,
You're quite right: the double bassoon effect seems quite mild, not  at all like the deep throaty, raspy bases on the Russian Jupiter bandoneons . I wouldn't even have been aware of the existence of these. :-/

Thanks for posting: interesting! :)

Hi Dingo,

I'll see if I can find a clip of one of the "basson grave" efforts and put it on this thread. Cavagnolo have put a lot of effort into their "Digit" range, where the focus is on replicating acoustic sounds rather than all the different orchestral effects. 

However, after listening to demos of these instruments that are capable of producing 11.76 different versions of French musette, I start to lose the plot about what's a bassoon and what's a piccolo. Don't think I'd ever buy one. as by the time I got it all set up to get an approximation of "that" sound I was looking for, the big black limo with the men in top hats would be waiting at the door. They are pretty clever with those acoustic, and if you never knew you could easily mistake one from the other (until you hear them both side by side).

We're currently engaged in my favourite pastime ever, painting and decorating, enforced on us by social distancing. All the painters and decorators must be on illicit holidays on some desert island that can offer 2 metre separation, with no mobile phone coverage, so we've decided to tackle it ourselves. Was thinking of painting all my boxes the same shade so they matched the room they're in, but I am about as good with subtle colour shades as I am with subtle sounds coming out of an accordion. A carpet fitter is coming tomorrow to do two bedrooms whilst we go and visit his mother, and speak to her and her husband through megaphones from the opposite end of their garden. With our mix of four different versions of "English" dialects it could be pretty interesting! 

We'll also have to go shopping to kill more time, although that won't kill much time at all. A weekly shop now takes 10 minutes to get in, 5 minutes to buy what you want, then 20 minutes to get through the checkout. Wish those painters would give me the name of that desert island (and a boat to get there!)
 

Dingo40

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John,
Thanks for posting.

I can see you've been even busier than our friends on the "digital and midi" forum with their electronic manipulations. :)

I always found the clearing of the room and the prepainting surface preparation the worst part of the job, although modern materials and applicators made the actual painting (decorating) quite rewarding.

(The absolute worst was removing old "distemper ", locally known as "calsomine ", which simply couldn't be painted over as the modern paints would not adhere to it: a tedious, major undertaking) :-/
 

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