Weltmeister Pirat?

[trek4fr]

Greetings, all. Another question from a noob, like many before. I have the opportunity to purchase, at a good price, a Weltmeister Pirat model. This accordion has 5 treble couplers (for 3 reeds) and, unlike the pictures I've found for it, actually has 3 bass couplers for what seems to be low, tenor, and master in the bass section. All the pictures I've found for the Pirat don't show any bass couplers. The Achat model, however, does have three bass couplers. So I'm a bit confused as to what model this might be. Also, I don't know where this Weltmeister was made. I know some of the Pirats say "Walther" on them, just to make things more interesting.

1. Does anyone know if Walther bought Weltmeister or vice versa?
2. If this Weltmeister was made in Germany, wouldn't it say so?
3. I am 55, at an intermediate level of playing, play for my own pleasure, and probably won't get a great deal better on the accordion than I am. Is this accordion of sufficient quality that it would last me "the rest of my days", proverbially? Is Weltmeister doing what Hohner did in moving a great deal of their "non-professional" model-manufacturing to China or elsewhere in the East?

Thanks for any info and help.

Bill

 

[Soulsaver]

If the concern is that its made in China - to my knowledge Welmeister models arent, yet at least.


This Pirat is branded Walther, but listed referencing Welmeister & has bass couplers... and sounds nice enough.
Modern Welmeisters are made with a lot of Hohner staff after Hohner moved much manufacturing to China. So later product are believed better than many earlier models. Most German & Italian manufactured accordions well looked after, stored adequately, aired regularly will last many years. If yours looks like the one in the link Id be confident in it.

 

[trek4fr]

Thanks, Soulsaver.

The exact one I am interested in is here:

>

As you can see, it says Weltmeister, though, other than the color, it looks just like the Walther. It sounds good, but with so much manufacturing being moved to Asia, I have no idea where these are made anymore. Ive heard nightmare stories about accordion quality control coming from Asia. Of course, I realize this is no Guerinni or Titano. I know it is a mid-level model from which a lot of people move up to Italian-made instruments. But I just wondered, if the price is right, if it might be a sound investment or an accordion that will require a lot of tuning and/or adjustment in the future, even if cared for extremely well.

Bill

 

[goldtopia]

At first glance it looks like a Weltmeister Achat. I had to have a look on the Thomann websites to see what is going on. I always thought that Walther was another German company but suspected there was some kind of connection to Welmeister and this confirms that there is. It may be that Weltmeister took over Walther or that Walther has always been a subsidery of Weltmeister. I suspect the latter and that now there is some kind of merger. I have had Weltmeister accordions. On the left is a picture of me with an earlier Welmeister Achat that had no bass registers, I sold that one and bought another Achat from Thomanns with the bass registers. You can get them in various colours my last one was a woody brown colour with MIDI installed. There are different models of Walther Pirat with the same name, to me it don't make sense. You can see the comparisons on their website. The Weltmeisters are quite good accordions much better than their older models which is because Hohner made the big mistake of moving to China and lost some of their employees to Weltmeister who prefered to stay in Germany. (who would want to live in China ?) I now play an Italian Pigini which is not a lot better than Weltmeister, I dont think many people would notice the difference but the Pigini does have a superior feel about it, its lighter, more expensive and the keys look like mother of pearl. I doubt if its real MOP.

 

[trek4fr]

Thanks, Bill. Yes, it does say Weltmeister Pirat 72 on it, despite the configuration. And I discovered that it does actually say "Made in Germany" in very small letters on the back. It may have been an Achat that was mismarked as a Pirat, I don't know. It does sound pretty good from other Youtube demos I've heard from the Achat. No, it isn't a top-of-the-line Italian box with fine woods and hand-made reeds. But then, it doesn't have that price tag either. And I suspect it would meet my needs. I can't see putting thousands of dollars into a hobby that I play solely for my own enjoyment and that I make no money from.

Thanks to both of you for your help and opinions.

Bill

 

[Soulsaver]

I've not heard of any complaints about them going out of tune any more than any other model. Like all mid range boxes, these'll be run of the mill machine made reeds and 'at home' playing will get 5-10 years or more before spot tuning may be required, which many tolerate anyway.

 

[trek4fr]

Well, I pulled the trigger and bought the little Weltmeister. It looks like it will make me a nice little accordion for, hopefully, the rest of my days. It has plastic reed blocks though. Weird.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

 

[Glenn]

Congratulations on your new accordion. Hope you get many years of enjoyment.

 

[goldtopia]

There is a tendency to prefer wooden reed blocks because wood matures with age contributing to better tone. Plastic reed blocks dont seem to make a lot of difference though there probably is but its not that noticeable. The modern Weltmeisters are still a good choice with good sound quality. If you are going up market to very expensive Italian accordions costing a few grand then thats a different ball game where you get the very best. Although I don't have a Weltmeister now I would still consider buying one over some Italian accordions, I don't think all Italian accordions are as good as they are made out to be but are a better choice than any Chinese accordion. I have not seen or heard the top end of Weltmeisters in real life which are terribly expensive so I cannot comment on them but I would expect them to be very good. For their high price the choice I think, many would go for an Italian accordion. The top end Weltmeisters would likely be more popular in Germany and German speaking countries. I have noticed that Weltmeister have a choice of tunings for Bavarian and other regions including Austrian and Swiss in which yodelling is very popular so they would have accordion tunings to suit their kind of music.

 

[trek4fr]

I had the option of purchasing a PanJet 45 for twice the price of this Achat. Granted, it is an Italian box with LMMM, but it is also 5 US pounds heavier and a lot older. It's a nice accordion, but I think it might get too heavy for me over the next few years.

 

[JIM D.]

The Whelty in the pic here has corroded bellows corners and should give you a clue to its quality. These poor quality boxes with weak bass machines, plastic reed blocks and low quality machine made reeds are not a good investment and have really low resale value. A Panjet 45s quality, and its worth, is easily 10x the price of this Whelty. In todays market a Panjet 45 can fetch (depending on condition) between $1000.00 and $3000.00 today in the US. PANjets were always and still today some of the finest accordions made. Myron Floren Loved His --

 

[goldtopia]

I agree with that but even old Italian accordions can have rust. It is possible to renovate most older accordions depending if it is worth the cost. I still believe the modern Weltmeisters are good value for the money, plastic reed blocks do not mean they are not worth considering. It would have to be a plastic of the right quality and consistency, not the kind of plastic that leggo is made from. I know Weltmeister make their own reeds, even if they are machine made (I don't know if they are) they would still have to be tuned by hand just the same as hand made reeds using electronic tuning devices in pretty much the same way. There's a lot of talk about hand made reeds that may not all be of the same quality depending where they are made. If the Chinese were to make hand made reeds, would they be accepted in the same way as hand made reeds made anywhere else ?

 

[trek4fr]

Jim, FWIW the "corrosion" is only reflections of light. It has no rust on it anywhere. Why camera flashes do this, I don't know.

The bass mechanism does feel stiff to me, however (it takes a lot of pressure to push the buttons down). Whether that is typical of these boxes or only a problem with this one, I don't know.

The seller is letting me test drive the PanJet also. Again, I'm an amateur so probably not a very good judge of quality or playability, relying mostly on name reputation and the input of others. I, obviously, want to make the best investment I can. There is no doubt that the PanJet is a fine accordion. But it weighs in at 24 pounds and I'm concerned that in about 10-15 years, I'll need a lighter box and be looking for an accordion again. Plus the PanJet has an 18" keyboard with narrower keys. Decisions. Decisions.

 

[JIM D.]

In 10 to 15 years the Welty will depreciate in value. The PAN will always hold its value, and if the model is discontinued it just might appreciate in value.

 

[trek4fr]

Hi all. Here is a picture of the PanJet that I am also test-driving. I have no idea how old it is, but it looks show-room ready to me. The seller allowed me to check out the reeds and leathers and, again, it looks brand new. It would cost me $700 more than the Weltmeister but it might be worth it. Opinions/comments welcome.

>

 

[JIM D.]

The Pan's just gorgeous -- This one is still made exactly the same. A new one will go for $7500.00+ a used one for a least half that. The pickups in this one go for $350.00 alone.

 

[goldtopia]

I agree with that.

 

[trek4fr]

Ok, folks, along with the sound, quality, reputation, and condition of the PanJet (plus with your helpful advice), I've decided to return the Weltmeister and buy the PanJet.

One thing I really like about it is the LMMM reeds which make for the nicest musette that I have ever heard. Again, I don't know how old it is but the reed wax is not cracked, the reed leathers are all straight, the keyboard is flat and responsive, the bass section is smooth, the pickups work, and, as would be expected, the sound is simply fabulous. I will have to learn to really play this thing. Ha ha!

Thanks again for everyone's help and input. I might need to find some exercises to strengthen my back some as this definitely weighs more than the Welty.

Also, if anyone can recommend some good quality leather shoulder straps for this that are about 2.5" wide, I would appreciate it. It comes with the 1/8" wide original straps. Ha ha! The seller has loaned me some "elephant straps" (4" I think) for it, but they seem way too wide for me.

Regards

 

[JIM D.]

Congratulations on your purchase :b :tup: :b
If you would like to hear one played by a pro try here --

 

[JIM D.]

The straps that will be just perfect for your new box would be the Neotech 3101172 Mega Accordion Harness. The Mega Harness straps can be found on Amazon and Ebay for under $60.00 with free shipping. :tup: