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Titano Ideal Convertor @ 444Hz?

Sebastian Bravo

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Hello everyone!

I had to tune some notes on a Titano Palmer Convertor Ideal model, it's a 41/120 LM with convertor Quint system...



some notes of the keyboard were out of tune, causing tremolo, so i checked with the tuner, and noticed that all the notes were tuned at 444Hz... 
i don't know why this instrument is tuned sharp, this is my first time with a Titano Accordion, and i don't know if it is normal with these instruments.
I also know that tuning it down to 440Hz will only cause damage to the reeds... so, it will be 444Hz forever.

Does it have any relation with these Organ Pipes style of the grill?
 

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kimric

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Most italian accordions are tuned sharp, though ones from the 40's tend to be less so.
Retuning the instrument won't damage it if it is done right, the reeds were ground to get them where they are now, it's just a lot harder and less practical to do after the instrument is assembled.

For some reason some of the Chinese instruments coming through my shop are sharp lately.
 

debra

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Tuning has been all over the place in the past, especially until say around 1970 or 1980. 444Hz is a bit high but for instance not uncommon in France where 443 and 444 have been used. If you want to know specifically about this Titano you might ask the people at Victoria who made a lot of Titanos a (not all, but it's your best bet).
Most Italian accordions nowadays are *not* tuned sharp. It really depends on the manufacturer. They can all do 440 or 442Hz but some will do 440 unless the customer asks otherwise and some will do 442 unless the customer asks otherwise. The sad reality is that most customers are clueless and when a group of accordion players gets together they are surprised that they sound so bad together due to the tuning mismatch. I would strongly recommend to all vendors to always discuss the tuning with a customer who wants to buy an accordion. It's a bit of customer education but in the end the customer will be happier. There are so many brands and manufacturers (some large, some really small) that it's hard to keep track of who does what for clueless customers. Bugari does 440 by default. Pigini and Victoria do 442 by default. They can all do something different. There are 442 Bugaris and 440 Piginis. When in doubt, always ask! Tuning down an accordion is always considered harmful (up as well) but I think that a change of 1Hz cannot be bad (in regular tuning you often already do more, but for individual reeds), but 440 to 442 or 442 to 440 is not a great idea.
 

kimric

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"I would strongly recommend to all vendors to always discuss the tuning with a customer who wants to buy an accordion."
I suspect most of the places online will have no idea what you are asking unfortunately.
 

Sebastian Bravo

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Thanks for your responses, it is really uncommon in my country to hear a 444Hz instrument. 
Tuning it down to 440 was not on my plans, i posted this just to discuss about it, and tunings in general.

I'm pretty sure he will sell the instrument because it's too sharp.
 

debra

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Sebastian Bravo said:
Thanks for your responses, it is really uncommon in my country to hear a 444Hz instrument. 
Tuning it down to 440 was not on my plans, i posted this just to discuss about it, and tunings in general.

I'm pretty sure he will sell the instrument because it's too sharp.

Instruments sometimes have a tendency to go up in frequency with age. I think this is because of the wax and leathers hardening. (The less optimal the seal is and the less optimal the grip of the wax the more the frequency of a reed goes up, which is why tuning an instrument with old wax and leathers is generally not a great idea.)
It is possible this instrument was originally 443, common in France I believe, and it is also possible it will go back to 443 if you put on new wax and leathers... but 443 will likely still be too high for your customer's taste...
 

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