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Scarlatti etc totally unacceptable or reasonable

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Pianoman1

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Hi thinking about 120 bass would a Scarlatti or similar be acceptable to play or are they so inferior they are not worth the money

Thoughts please

I would like another Hohner any thoughts there as well preowned of course
 

george garside

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Scarlatti and other low priced boxes can be ok for beginners, the impecunious and those who want to test accordion waters before spending a lot of money on a posh box. Don't buy new as depreciation instant and considerable which can make a 2nd hand one a fair bargain!

Main problem is lack of quality control so never buy without first trying - some are quite reasonable others less so!

Hohner have over the years made both inexpensive everyday boxes eg hohner student range and top quality very expensive boxes eg Morino anad Gola ranges and indeed everything in between. In other words something for every pocket and taste.

For what its worth I have owned several hohners and ,again, provided you try before you buy you won't go far wrong as you will get a box that holds its value as well as being pleasant to play

george
 

JIM D.

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Hi Pianoman;
First, refer to this-
http://www.accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1584
Now the Chinese have, and still make quality accordions but these quality boxes are not exported. The China imports we see in Europe and the US are well like comparing Apples and Oranges. We have members here that will give you Pros and Cons of these imports. Im an accordion dealer and we have Forum members here that deal in Chinese boxes. So for professional courtesy I will have to refer to Thumper --
 

landro

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I`ve never seen a high end China accordion but supposedly in China there are at least 250,000 students learning to play it at any given time . I`m inclined to believe they are fully able to build a good instrument ,at least for those who can afford it.
Even if they decided to enter the world market with a high end instrument, I`d have to ask if they could ever hope to carve out a profitable segment of what is presently an Italian dominated market or would they want to try knowing the international market is constantly shrinking .
 

debra

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There are plenty of good sounding videos on YouTube, of chinese players or groups using chinese instruments. There are also special instruments that have no basses and only a (piano) keyboard, and they are not basson instruments, they have a normal range of notes. Such instruments are indeed not available here.
The Chinese are able to build good instruments. They build the Hohner Student series (but that is of course using Hohner machines). There are several Chinese accordion manufacturers present at the Frankfurter Musikmesse. They would not be there if they were hopeless in the western accordion market.
The sad reality is that most people expect smaller student models to cost less than it actually costs to make them in Italy (or other western countries). That's where the Chinese see an opportunity. The Chinese can probably produce reasonable professional converter instruments but in that segment people in Europe are still willing to pay what the Italians charge (say roughly 8.000 to 15.000 euro) so the Chinese cannot really penetrate that market (yet).
 
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Pianoman1

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OK thanks I always try before I buy - So I want 120 bass for 41 key keyboard and more balance The Hohner I have is great on the bass but lack volume on the keyboard side or is this just deficient technique from me I also want more range for jazz

I can spend up to £1100 for pre owned suggestions please I have a birthday coming up in June Thanks
 
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dak

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landro said:
Even if they decided to enter the world market with a high end instrument, I`d have to ask if they could ever hope to carve out a profitable segment of what is presently an Italian dominated market or would they want to try knowing the international market is constantly shrinking .
Arguably mass-produced factory instruments of any manufacturer these days are lukewarm: actual manufacture in the old days involved creating a uniform character from imperfect raw materials. The workers competed on skill, so mass production tended to become better over time and instruments were created rather than assembled from parts. Its sobering to realize that Alfred Arnold bandonions, the mystical Tango instruments, were cheap and cheesy mass produced accordion substitutes in their home country of Germany.

If you buy 10 Hohner Morino V from 1968, they will all have their own distinct sound and character. If you buy 10 Hohner Morino V from 2008, they might have small differences, but not consistent enough to actually establish different characters. And working from more precisely milled raw parts means less and less manual intervention for carving out a homgenous instrument.

So one can probably do worse than visit Castelfidardo where every second family builds its own accordions and old men carry stacks of bellows they did in their free time across the street, forget about the brands and try out accordions until one finds one to love. At least if one believes the stories.

Other than that, it makes more sense to buy an instrument one could play and compare, even if that means driving a large distance to someone stocking different instruments and paying a larger price than with mail order.
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Pianoman,

120 Bass Chansons & Pearl Rivers come in at about £995 brand new. I am not advising you to buy one of these instruments, but I do own a 72 Bass Chanson myself.

My Chanson sounds lovely and, despite what others have told me to the contrary, it is very easy to play and responsive to the touch. I absolutely love it.

My other accordion is a Galotta, which I also love. I use it mostly for working through tunes, and it serves me well in that role. It also gets a weekly outing to the Folk Club, where its dulcet tones are much appreciated.

In the end, it is you who must decide which instrument you buy, but you owe it to yourself to at least consider Chinese alternatives.
I believe that they represent very good value for money, though others may view my remarks as heresy.

Stephen Hawkins.
 

george garside

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Pianoman1 said:
OK thanks I always try before I buy - So I want 120 bass for 41 key keyboard and more balance The Hohner I have is great on the bass but lack volume on the keyboard side or is this just deficient technique from me I also want more range for jazz

I can spend up to £1100 for pre owned suggestions please I have a birthday coming up in June Thanks

Whilst the relationship between bass and treble volume is fixed in the sense of sqeeze harder - both go louder - sqwwze gently both go quiet, the relationship between them remaining the same as its the same block of air in the middle so to speak.

However the perceived volume of the bass can be altered very much by technique. eg if the bass are tapped very lightly, as if red hot, the bass note will not be around for long and so will in effect sound less obtrusive.This technique requires the fingers to come slightly off the bass buttons between strikes.

Lots of other ways including using bass couplers if fitted, playing chord only here and there instead of um pa um pa, leaving bass off completely for a bar or two to throw emphasis on melody etc etc etc.

As to choosing a box I think the single most important factor is the sound it makes - if it doesnt have the sound you really want forget it however much of a bargain it may be as you will never be happy with it or get used to it. 20 years ago I bought a serenellini at around half the price I was intending to play simply because the sound of it was, to me, something really special. I still have that box and use it regularly including band work and will never sell it. Other boxes have come and gone!

george
 
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dak

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george garside said:
However the perceived volume of the bass can be altered very much by technique. eg if the bass are tapped very lightly, as if red hot, the bass note will not be around for long and so will in effect sound less obtrusive.This technique requires the fingers to come slightly off the bass buttons between strikes.
What works pretty well too is 'starving' bass notes by letting the buttons recede almost but not quite completely. This works better with bass notes rather than chords since the lower reeds tend to swing out last once they are in motion, making the fade of the note natural. Of course, how well your accordion reacts to such trickery depends very much on the individual disposition of the instrument and how well its mechanics are adjusted.
 

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