• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

Scandalli bass pallets

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
I've finally got round to looking at the bass pallets on my 1950s Scandalli LMMH, and it's a tiny bit weird:

IMG_0003.1.jpg

Yep, they're very old and very manky, original I'm certain.

The chord pallets (top of image) are also trapezoidal: 14mm wide at the top and 16mm at the bottom. Anybody know why I shouldn't replace those with rectangular facings ?

I'm also wondering what effect pillows that size would have on the bass performance.
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
3,711
Reaction score
546
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
These pallets are certainly old, but they look pretty normal to me. The "imprints" you see are normal and actually cause the pallets to seal better. (A new accordion never seals as well as one that has been "rubbed in".)
Pallets should not be wider than needed, to keep them as light as possible. So the trapezoidal shape is intended to achieve that. The holes for the highest reeds are smaller than for the lower voices, so the pallets need not be as wide there.
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
Cheers, in that case I can just fit rectangular facings.
I'm fairly sure the german company I order from won't do trapezoidal shapes. And cutting them down is fairly likely to result in a disaster.

The drop test on my Hohner Lucia with new facings was 55 secs and 9 months later it was 65 secs. So i'm aware settling is a good thing :)
I was just wondering if pillows can be too deep and affect the bass action or the sound.
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,758
Reaction score
255
Those pallets have some mileage but are still in a normal state. You might just save yourself parts & labor by renewing the pads you
have. Those leather pallet pads had a suede finish when new and in your case might just be renewed. I've done this many times in the past
and it worked quite well. You will need a suede shoe brush and carefully renew the finish on the pallets. Your pallets look like this will work
well.
 
Last edited:

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
Yep, you're right.
I just tried brushing a couple with my usual toothbrush and a lot of the surface crud came off. So I could reuse them.

But given I've now got the pallets off I prefer to reface them, some of the felt looks a bit iffy too.
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,758
Reaction score
255
LET ME CAUTION YOU --- In a bass machine YOU MUST replace your pallet pads with new ones the with padding of the same thickness. If not replaced with the same thickness padding it will require you to adjust all the pipes that are triggered by the pistons to operate properly.


Self adhesive valve padding works well and eliminates messy gluing. ---


https://frment.com/keyboard/accordion-valve-padding/
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
Cheers,
yep I knew that - I've measured the old facings about 5 times.

On the Hohner Lucia they've built in a way to adjust the bass action, I can't see anything similar on the removable Scandalli bass machine so I'm being extra careful with the pad dimensions.

My new pads will be from Akkordeonwelt:
I've used their facings on a Hohner Lucia, an Orfeo LMM, and the Scandalli treble with no problems at all.
 

Ventura

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
440
Reaction score
207
Location
mid-atlantic, USA
this picture shows the transmission pieces
(flat long things half hidden under the pads)
that i had referred to earlier, that actuate the
"bass" pads when the "chord" pads are opened/raised by playing the bass

the lift pushes these flat arms to then push open the other pallet

if these are left off, the chords only voice 3 reeds and much less air
is gulped, and (i think) the bass notes are then a bit more distinct
as they are not so constantly being sounded...

and the left hand volume overall seems a bit less overbearing
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
3,711
Reaction score
546
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
this picture shows the transmission pieces
(flat long things half hidden under the pads)
that i had referred to earlier, that actuate the
"bass" pads when the "chord" pads are opened/raised by playing the bass

the lift pushes these flat arms to then push open the other pallet

if these are left off, the chords only voice 3 reeds and much less air
is gulped, and (i think) the bass notes are then a bit more distinct
as they are not so constantly being sounded...

and the left hand volume overall seems a bit less overbearing
No picture was shown...
But I think your explanation has it reversed. The "lift" between the pallets of the base notes (lower two voices) to the pallets for the chords (upper three voices) is set up such that when the base notes are pressed the chord pallets also opens. Then a chord button is pressed only the chord pallets open. So a base note button opens two pallets (base+chord for the same note) and a chord button opens three pallets (chord pallet for each of the three notes in the chord). If the "lift" were removed then the base notes would only play the lower two voices (deep bass) and would play nothing if a high bass register is used, and the chord buttons would still do the same. So "the chords only voice 3 reeds and much less air is gulped" is untrue: the chords always play only the 3 upper voices. Only the sound of the base notes changes when the "lift" is removed or disabled.
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
The bass register switches are

1) Tenor (TAS)
2) Soft Bass (BTC)
3) Master (BTCAS)
4) Soft Tenor (TA)
5) TCA
6) CAS

So if I take the link out then (6) would be silent for bass notes.

I do agree the bass is quite loud, but I'm thinking I'll get used to it or maybe play it a bit more staccatto.
I mostly play using Soft Bass anyway because I prefer less treble on the bass.
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
And here's the mechanism:

Mechanism b.jpg

You can see the brass link ("transmission pieces") from the top of the bass lever to the top of the chord lever.
The bass machine presses on the upright on the left of the pallet near the top (you can just see the mark)

The flat rails screw to the wood just behind each spring, which makes it tricky to install I'm guessing (unless they put the facings on after installation).
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
3,711
Reaction score
546
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
The bass register switches are

1) Tenor (TAS)
2) Soft Bass (BTC)
3) Master (BTCAS)
4) Soft Tenor (TA)
5) TCA
6) CAS

So if I take the link out then (6) would be silent for bass notes.

...
Correct. And you also see why there is no BT register: if not at least one of C, A or S is included then the chords won't play, with or without link. I had an accordion with a "BS" register, which just sounds awful. But I disabled the S on that register to get just B base notes (and no chords).
 

Ventura

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
440
Reaction score
207
Location
mid-atlantic, USA
clearly years and years since i did this... my explanation was off

the last picture shows how simple spring pressure keeps the crossover linkage in place

since the whole bass mechanism is "drop out" trying it with and without the arms is quick and easy

so the Bass side is the side that pushes the levers for the chord side ? it seems
and i guess i preffered the bass sound being just two reeds always as i have
never changed it back in all these years (lol)

mine specifically is one of the 3/4 size LMMH treble Blue and Cream colored series...
so lightweight, so loud, still pretty, still going strong
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
Yep, the bass side pushes on the wide bit of the link to open the chord lever.
When the chord lever moves the link just slides in the hole in the bass lever.

Removing the links is easy, the bass end will bend just enough to pop it out.
 

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
567
Reaction score
126
Location
London UK
Well that was fun :)

Quite tricky to put the mechanism back in the accordion since you can only access the screws with the springs off.
It is just possible to hook one end of the spring on and stretch it to fit, but I did that with the facings missing.
Then put glue on the facings, lift pallet, position facing, release pallet.

Definitely worth replacing the facings though: drop test time went from 39 secs to 57 secs (master/master 57, 57, 60).

I did prepare the wood surface: filled some rough spots and then sanded to 1200 grit.
I measured the holes and did facing positioning marks with a red felt tip.
I filed some connecting rods to make sure the chord pallets were closing fully.

Note to self: next time do the filling and sanding before the red felt tip to avoid colouring the wood pink :)
 

Col

Newbie
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
this picture shows the transmission pieces
(flat long things half hidden under the pads)
that i had referred to earlier, that actuate the
"bass" pads when the "chord" pads are opened/raised by playing the bass

the lift pushes these flat arms to then push open the other pallet

if these are left off, the chords only voice 3 reeds and much less air
is gulped, and (i think) the bass notes are then a bit more distinct
as they are not so constantly being sounded...

and the left hand volume overall seems a bit less overbearing
I always block off the picocolo reeds on the bass side
 

Similar threads

Top