• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

REGISTER SHIFT

Chickers

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
44
Reaction score
6
Location
CLEVELAND, OHIO, USA
I have a 1970's vintage Monarch accordion 41 / 120.
A very clean, well maintained accordion, that also has a nice pleasant sound.
My problem is the "Bassoon" seems to automatically come in while playing.
No matter which other shifter I may press, in just a few minutes, the "bassoon"
come on.
Any comments and / or ideas on how to correct this issue ??
Thanks,
CHICKERS, Ohio, USA
 

Dingo40

Prolific poster
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
249
Location
South Australia
I have experienced a similar problem where I have a tendency to accidentally activate the "palm lever" with my knee whilst playing a non- master coupling 😐
 

pentaprism

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
310
Reaction score
18
I hear you, Chickers.

I have a relatively new (probably about 7 years old) LMMM Victoria that I don't play that often (preferring my LMMH Fisitalia). About a few months back, the M register started "to automatically come in while playing." I opened it up and adjusted something in there (something keeping the "balance" of the rods, but I can't remember exactly). That fixed the problem at least for a few weeks afterward. But then I didn't play it until last night. The problem came back. I could hear the sound when the accordion "automatically" changed registers.

I'll open it up again this weekend. This time I'll record what I do.
 
Last edited:

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,648
Reaction score
157
Sounds like you have loose slides in you shift machine. If you can post a few pic's of your shift machine I'll be able to give you
advice on the corrections needed. Before you do this make sure you are not hitting the wrist shift when performing (same result).
 
Last edited:

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
231
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
As Jim says, not much we can help without pictures of the register mechanism, mostly likely under the grille, maybe also inside (where the reed blocks are that need to be removed to see more.
But also as Dingo40 says, many people have problems with a palm switch getting pressed accidentally by your right leg while playing.
To keep the sliders (under the register buttons) where they are there is very often a spring-loaded mechanism (keeping the slide fixed in the on as well as off position. But some accordions, like some Hohner Morino series, are missing this and just rely on friction to keep sliders in place.
 

Chickers

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
44
Reaction score
6
Location
CLEVELAND, OHIO, USA
Thanks for the suggestions.
The Monarch does not have a palm switch, so it must be internal levers. I'll take a "careful" look inside, take a few pics,
and get back with more detail.
Thanks again
Chickers
 

pentaprism

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
310
Reaction score
18
Here's the register mechanism of my Victoria Montparnasse:

_DSC7570.jpg

The spring is on the right. There is a piece of metal of L-shaped cross section. I don't know what it's called (let's call it "the bracket" for now) but its function seems to be to limit the amount of travel of the slides.

_DSC7571.jpg

The screw holding the bracket had come loose, thus preventing the slides from fully being engaged at the spring. While trying to adjust and tighten the machine screw holding the bracket, I found that the thread of the screw hole on the thin aluminum had been stripped. There was no way to tighten the screw.

I removed the bracket and tried to think of a way to fix the thread. But then I found out that totally removing the bracket seemed to fix the problem, and the operation of the slides/registers seemed to be fine. I didn't put the bracket back, and the operation of the registers has been OK for the last few days of extensive playing (before, it would "automatically" switch registers after 10 - 15 minutes).

I'll leave the bracket out for now, and will put it back if there is any problem.

_DSC7573.jpg

In general, I'm a bit disappointed by the construction quality of the Victoria Montparnasse. I understand they try save weigh; but the aluminum sheet metal is too thin and the screws are too small to inspire confidence. IMHO, the construction quality of my Fisitalia 46.45TC and even of my Cavagnolo Super Junior are better.
 
Last edited:

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,648
Reaction score
157
Not to worry - it was only there to limit travel. If there's enough of friction to hold the slides It won't be missed.
Unlike the sturdy shift machines of the 50's to 70's Italian made models, all the newer Italian makes have flimsy but
adequate shift machines.
 

Sebastian Bravo

Active member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
217
Reaction score
12
Location
Santiago, Chile
Here's the register mechanism of my Victoria Montparnasse: In general, I'm a bit disappointed by the construction quality of the Victoria Montparnasse. I understand they try save weigh; but the aluminum sheet metal is too thin and the screws are too small to inspire confidence. IMHO, the construction quality of my Fisitalia 46.45TC and even of my Cavagnolo Super Junior are better.
Months ago, i serviced a Victoria with loosen screws from the palm master register. It is somewhat common, because the screws are really short and have no security in the threads. They should change their screws or glue them with something (I've seen lot of accordions with red glue on their screws threads)
I wrote an email to Victoria with pictures and suggestions but i got no answer...
 

pentaprism

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
310
Reaction score
18
Yes Sabastian. In my experience, small sheet metal screws and thin aluminum sheet is a bad combination.
 

debra

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
231
Location
Eindhoven, the Nnetherlannds
Months ago, i serviced a Victoria with loosen screws from the palm master register. It is somewhat common, because the screws are really short and have no security in the threads. They should change their screws or glue them with something (I've seen lot of accordions with red glue on their screws threads)
I wrote an email to Victoria with pictures and suggestions but i got no answer...
It also happens with really short screws into thin wood, providing not enough strength. Everything nowadays is concentrated on making accordions lighter, at the "expense" of reduced strength. A short screw into a thin sheet of metal does work, but 1) you should never overtighten it and 2) it won't last unless it is glued. A "thread-locker" fluid can help to some extent. I don't know exactly what the red glue is, but I have seen it in other devices, and in some accordions. Victoria does learn from its mistakes, but just like every other accordion manufacturer (and unlike for instance car manufacturers) there are never any recalls to fix mistakes from the past. The "Klebemorino" disaster is something the accordion world will not easily forget. Virtually all accordions made in Italy in a short period of time (and those include the Hohner Morino) developed a problem with the pallets that started to stick to the soundboard. Due to the popularity of the Morino the problem is most known for the Morinos made during that short period but many other brands had the same problem. As far as I know not a single manufacturer issued a recall to have the pallets replaced (free of charged) even though replacing the pallets was the only solution for this problem. That is just the way the accordion manufacturers work. Don't think abandoning one manufacturer and going to a different one will solve this general attitude issue. They are all the same. They make great instruments, but the industry just isn't similar to the car industry, because when something is wrong, nobody dies whereas with cars lives are really at stake.
 
Last edited:

Ventura

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
306
Reaction score
113
Location
mid-atlantic, USA
ah yes Debra... the untested but "everyone got talked into useing" wonderful
new type less expensive Glue that turned out after a few years to migrate
through the leather pads and stick

don't forget rhe wonderful Foam material they began to substitute for the
Felt on those same Valves !!! the foam that detiorated and turned into powder
from the bit of UV rays that seeped in through the grillecloth... Settimo Soprni
adopted them wholeharteadly and mid level models used these exclusively...
cleaning the Foam grit and dust out of one of these accordions was a real
time wasting chore, not to mention cleaning and rebuilding every pallet on the treble side...

Though turning Lemons into Lemonade, i bought my Gola for a pittance many
decades ago because, after it had sat in a closet for a dozen years, the Treble
side was in full Rigor Mortis from thie glue issue, and the seller assumed it was
terminal (he played String instruments, but had inherited the accordion from his
Mothers estate) So for a month spent learning and rebuilding the keyboard
i had a Box that would last the rest of my Life and reliably be my companion
on thousands of gigs

Hohner Atlantics had an achillies heel also... the Metal through Metal pivots could
easily get a kind of Aluminum Corrosion buildup that would freeze the movements
and cause the accordion to be (seemingly) well and truly frozen up... but which is not
all that difficult to fix (and was how i got my Atlantic IV for a song)

ciao

Ventura

ps: a good tip i was taught is to apply a super thin layer of Glue to the new
leather pads you are refacing the pallets with, then let them dry fully... a couple
days later when you go to actually attach the new leathers, you will need less
glue so it will be a less wet process, AND the fresh glue will only need to bond
to the DRIED glue surface , meaning less chance of mistakes
 

Dingo40

Prolific poster
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
249
Location
South Australia
Ventura,
"Valves !!! the foam that detiorated and turned into powder"
My Bugari came with a bellows protector which was packed with this selfsame foam.
Within a very few years, this foam simply evaporated! God only knows where it went. There was no trace of it left inside the fabric cover whatever.
Luckily, there was a local manufacturer of dunas (quilts) stuffed with natural wool who were able to restuff it with wool for me. It has worked for two decades, without a problem, since!🙂👍
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,648
Reaction score
157
I have run into the sticky leathers on treble pallets more than once in the past. In all instance's the sticky leathers only appeared
on Excelsior branded models of at least 10 to 20+ years old. Sadly this situation only reared itself when any warranty had expired
the manufacturer or dealer it was purchased from. Many repair shops applied talcum powder to the leather facings which seemed
to alleviate the problem, but that original petroleum based glue bleed thru in time and the sticky pallet situation reared itself again.
In all instance's replacing pallet facings was the proper and only option.
Now in the instance of the 'red glue' -- not to be confused with the red paint used on screws used in electronic components as
in this instance the paint is only used to detect tampering. In musical instruments a red glue was used in the past only to prove
ineffective in time. A new product is now used and can be obtained at hardware stores & auto parts dealers ----

Works well and can be removed easily with hand tools. (A must in my shop !!)
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top