Reed Leathers

[FireSpirit]

Hello!

I sent my accordion to repair. I asked for a complete tune up.

The tuner told me that he doesn't change the reeds leather if they're good but I think But I think leather is very old and should be changed.

My questions is: "old" leather is reliable? Should I ask to change or can I continue with the old one?

 

[debra]

What is "old"? Leathers that are 30 years old can still be very good and can also be completely dried out, depending on where the accordion was used and stored. After 50 years... maybe it's better to replace them.
But... replacing leathers is very difficult without taking the reed plates off. And in that case the repair becomes way more expensive. If the accordion is 50 years old it's best to also replace the wax... major job, and major expense. If the accordion is just 30 years old the wax should still be good ...
So it all depends!

 

[JIM D.]

After 40 years of accordion repair I've learned to practice the old adage "If i'ts Not Broken, Don't Try To Fix It !!!"
An accordion even up to 70 years old made with quality leathers and continually played will have leathers that have worn
in and remained supple. A new set of reed leathers will take time to seal as well as the originals. Think of a Ball player using a new glove. Once worn in the player might just use it for his total career.
As in the case of plastic reed valves, well the same does not apply as plastic has a lifetime and tend to with age, will harden, loose flexibility eventually break.

 

[Stephen Selby]

I read a post somewhere that said, if you replace the reed leathers, you have to re-tune the whole instrument. Is that true? I'm working on a 1950s instrument with reed leathers like Elizabeth Taylor's eyelashes. They have to come out,

 

[debra]

I read a post somewhere that said, if you replace the reed leathers, you have to re-tune the whole instrument. Is that true? I'm working on a 1950s instrument with reed leathers like Elizabeth Taylor's eyelashes. They have to come out,

That is always true when you replace valves because the amount of "resistance" the valves (with or without help from a booster spring) offer to the airflow influences the tuning.

 

[Stephen Selby]

So to check that I have understood, to do a reed valve replacement:
1. You disassemble, replace the leathers, then wax everything back in again,
2. Play each note and create a tuning chart,
3, Disassemble and re-tune according to the chart, then wax everything back in again,
4. Test and fine tune.

Is there a better workflow?

 

[Dingo40]

Stephen,
I'm no technician, but as an interested spectator /observer this seems unnecessarily complicated ?
What I've observed my own technician do (with satisfactory results) is to take out the relevant reed block, remove the individual reed plate, incidentally clearing the old wax; removing the old leather valves ( where necessary); cleaning up any rust on the reeds ( replacing where needed); attaching new leather/synthetic valves; tuning the reeds on a separate set of bellows, made for the purpose, using an electronic tuner; rewaxing the unit back in place Essentially: job done, apart from a quick recheck when all is reassembled.
This guy could service an entire reed block in an hour, while maintaining a conversation and without raising a sweat!??

 

[knobby]

Have a look here, post #2

Replacing reed leathers?

My old Excelsior has about 10 reeds where the leathers are bending back about 1/8" to 3/16". I've tried a couple of methods to flatten them but they are old and tired (kinda like me) and have lost their stiffness (kind like...well, never mind). I'd like to replace them but the information I've...

www.accordionists.info

 

[debra]

So to check that I have understood, to do a reed valve replacement:
1. You disassemble, replace the leathers, then wax everything back in again,
2. Play each note and create a tuning chart,
3, Disassemble and re-tune according to the chart, then wax everything back in again,
4. Test and fine tune.

Is there a better workflow?

This is overly complex.
My procedure would be:
1. Disassemble, replace the leathers that go on the inside, then wax everything back in, then replace the leathers that go on the outside. (This is a safeguard against messing up the outer leathers should there be a minor spill with the wax.
2. Play each note and create a tuning chart.
3. Take reed blocks out and make adjustments according to the chart, then put reed blocks back in.
4. Repeat 2-3 as many times until at the final test everything is fine.
5. After waiting for a day, repeat 2-3 again.
6. Repeat 5 day after day until no more adjustments are needed.
I know that many people will just stop after step 4 and think they are donne.

 

[debra]

...
What I've observed my own technician do (with satisfactory results) is to take out the relevant reed block, remove the individual reed plate, incidentally clearing the old wax; removing the old leather valves ( where necessary); cleaning up any rust on the reeds ( replacing where needed); attaching new leather/synthetic valves; tuning the valves on a separate set of bellows, made for the purpose, using an electronic tuner; rewaxing the unit back in place Essentially: job done, apart from a quick recheck when all is reassembled.
This guy could service an entire reed block in an hour, while maintaining a conversation and without raising a sweat!??

A tuning bellows comes in two variations: one with a very large hole, so that a half-accordion just fits around the hole. You put the half accordion on the bellows, measure a note, flick the half accordion upside down, do filing/scratching, flick it back, test again, and repeat... This only works with non-cassotto accordions. A very experienced factory tuner can tune a 41/120 non-cassotto accordion this way in about 2 hours. Cassotto takes a bit longer as the reed block needs to be taken out for the scratching/filing as it is otherwise unreachable.
The other variation is to have a small hole so you can place a reed block over it and test a single reed. This can be used only to check whether the leathers move freely, the reeds play, and the voicing is about right. If you use this to do the actual tuning you can be done in an hour, but the result is an accordion that is still so much out of tune you would send an unhappy customer home.

 

[Dingo40]

Paul,
He was working on a non-cassotto accordion at the time ??

 

[Stephen Selby]

This is overly complex.
My procedure would be:
1. Disassemble, replace the leathers that go on the inside, then wax everything back in, then replace the leathers that go on the outside. (This is a safeguard against messing up the outer leathers should there be a minor spill with the wax.
2. Play each note and create a tuning chart.
3. Take reed blocks out and make adjustments according to the chart, then put reed blocks back in.
4. Repeat 2-3 as many times until at the final test everything is fine.
5. After waiting for a day, repeat 2-3 again.
6. Repeat 5 day after day until no more adjustments are needed.
I know that many people will just stop after step 4 and think they are done.

Query: do you tune the inside reeds while they're still in the reed block? Otherwise I would have thought you'd need to undo and wax twice.

 

[debra]

Query: do you tune the inside reeds while they're still in the reed block? Otherwise I would have thought you'd need to undo and wax twice.

You always tune the inside reeds while they are still on the reed block. In an accordion repair (tuning) course they teach you how to do this successfully on even the smallest piccolo reeds. But... with small piccolo reeds you do often have to take out the reed block to get access to the reeds. Piccolo reeds are often mounted upside down, and that implies you cannot do scratching inside the accordion, but you can do the scratching by taking out the reed block and then you have access through the hole in the bottom plate (so you can support the reed or push it up to correct the voicing).
I only take a reed plate off when I notice that a previous tuner has bent an inside reed out of shape. Straightening the reed is too hard to do while the reedplate is still on the block.

 

[Dingo40]

Illuminating, guys: thanks!??