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Re Tuning (Dirks Acc Tuner readouts)

losthobos

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Hi...i've just run a couple of my boxes through Dirks Accordion Tuner more out of interest than for any need to alter tunings...
I'm just a tad unsure how to read the results...i believe i've done correctly but grateful if anyone could confirm..
Moreschi box is tuned +2.2cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +15 cents...Difference +12.7 , beating at 7.6
Piermaria is tuned +10 cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +22.5 cents....Difference +12.5 , beating at 7.6
Am i correct in assuming that if we were talking about the tuning both these boxes tuned at 12.5cents for the vibration...
hope that makes sense....
many thanks
 
M

maugein96

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losthobos said:
Hi...i've just run a couple of my boxes through Dirks Accordion Tuner more out of interest than for any need to alter tunings...
I'm just a tad unsure how to read the results...i believe i've done correctly but grateful if anyone could confirm..
Moreschi box is tuned +2.2cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +15 cents...Difference +12.7 , beating at 7.6
Piermaria is tuned +10 cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +22.5 cents....Difference +12.5 , beating at 7.6
Am i correct in assuming that if we were talking about the tuning both these boxes tuned at 12.5cents for the vibration...
hope that makes sense....
many thanks

Terry,

I haven't used Dirk's tuner much although I still have the trial version. 

If my memory serves me right you need to adjust the tuner to the diapason using your straight tuned flute reed only before you attempt to measure the difference between it and the sharp tuned reeds. That way you get a straightforward comparison with no other calculations being required. It will tell you right away the cent or Hz interval between the two reeds, but with the trial version there is no facility to test anywhere else on the treble keyboard. Only comparison you'll get is A above middle C. 

You also get to know the diapason of your instrument. 450Hz doesn't sound right at all. I'll run mine through again just to verify what I've said and let you know what happens. My Cavagnolo should be 4.4 cents and my Maugein should be 8 cents.
 

losthobos

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Measured straight tuned reeds first.. Moreschi was +2.2cents over so about 440.8.. Piermaria was good 10cents over so around 443Hz..
Then measured with second reed setting and this then came up about 12.5 cents above baseline set by first reed...
 
M

maugein96

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losthobos said:
Measured straight tuned reeds first.. Moreschi was +2.2cents over so about 440.8.. Piermaria was good 10cents over so around 443Hz..
Then measured with second reed setting and this then came up about 12.5 cents above baseline set by first reed...

Terry,

When you get the screen up you need to use the slider on the extreme right whilst playing your A button on single flute reed, until the red pointer at the bottom middle of the screen is more or less centred. You'll probably not get it spot on. I know both my boxes are tuned to 441Hz so that was a help, but both were "off" by a negligible margin. That being the case I just left the diapason setting at 441Hz.  

Once you have done that and you're happy with the red pointer position select the reed tab for two reeds. You'll then get three boxes appearing in the bottom left corner of the screen. Switch on your two voice MM coupler on your accordion, and depress the A button with both reeds selected. First box shows your "straight tuned reed", and the third one gives the off tuned reed. The box in the middle with the "beating" is the one you want. Keep the button depressed until the word "lock" appears in red on the big diapason setting box on the right. At that stage the reading in the beating box shows you by how many cents your reeds are tuned apart.

That's it. There is no need to involve any other calculation. 

Mine worked out at 4.5 and 8 cents respectively, as expected, in the "beating" box. Sometimes it will vary by a very small margin, probably because the mike on my laptop isn't a world beater, but it's close enough for me. 

I ran a couple of test sound samples using my laptop video and discovered that the Cava sounds better when listening to it from the front than it does when you are playing it, so all my moans about it appear to be unfounded. Funnily enough the Maugein sounds better when you play it than it does in a recording. 

The technical stuff with both tuning and recording is way over my head so I can't explain why that is.
 

losthobos

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Thank you.....never was one for the Haynes Manuals... Always prefered to ask others... Will run test again tomorrow with your guidance and see what I find..
 

debra

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losthobos said:
Hi...i've just run a couple of my boxes through Dirks Accordion Tuner more out of interest than for any need to alter tunings...
I'm just a tad unsure how to read the results...i believe i've done correctly but grateful if anyone could confirm..
Moreschi box is tuned +2.2cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +15 cents...Difference +12.7 , beating at 7.6
Piermaria is tuned +10 cents over 440Hz, 2nd reed is +22.5 cents....Difference +12.5 , beating at 7.6
Am i correct in assuming that if we were talking about the tuning both these boxes tuned at 12.5cents for the vibration...
hope that makes sense....
many thanks

+2.2 cents over 440Hz is still below 441Hz.  If you just measured the A4 that's not enough to tell what the baseline should be. Try at least 5 notes, and consider that with age notes have more of a tendency to go up than to go down. So the baseline for the Moreschi box may still be 440Hz.
The Piermaria at +10 cents may be tuned originally to 442Hz and gone up slightly as +10 is around 442.5.
As for measuring tremolo you should always first find out the base tuning, set Dirk's accordion tuner to that and then measure the tremolo. Dirk's tuner can tell you the amount of tremolo right away. 12 to 13 cents is a rather mild tremolo. (German tuning is 14 cents, Italian is 16 cents, which does not mean that this is how tuning is done in Germany and Italy, it's just a name.) The tremolo measured in cents goes down as you move to higher notes and up going down to lower notes. You need to keep it sounding pretty much the same to your ears. (There are tables to tell you how much the tremolo should be for each note, once you chose a base, but I find that going by ear always works best.)
 

losthobos

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thankyou John/Paul
Have retested and now in beating box the figures are +12.2 top figure and 7.6 for the lower figure....
So if i were to describe the tuning to someone would i describe the tuning as 12 cents or 7.6
the Moreschi came in with a slightly higher top figure of 13 but the beating figure remained the same at 7.6
sorry for my confusion
 
M

maugein96

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losthobos said:
thankyou John/Paul
Have retested and now in beating box the figures are +12.2 top figure and 7.6 for the lower figure....
So if i were to describe the tuning to someone would i describe the tuning as 12 cents or 7.6
the Moreschi came in with a slightly higher top figure of 13 but the beating figure remained the same at 7.6
sorry for my confusion

Glad you got it worked out. In my case I only have the trial version of Dirk's tuner, so I can only work on the A note. I'm not able to carry out Paul's suggestion to try 5 notes, but if you have the full version you'd be as well to do that. 

There are two numbers in the beating box, but it was the top number that corresponded to my boxes. I'm not entirely sure what the bottom number actually refers to. In fact when I have time to think about it I'm not really sure what most of Dirk's tuner does.
 

losthobos

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thank you....i thought that was correct....i only have trial version and was merely checking as an experiment more than a necessity
 

debra

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O bought Dirk's accordion tuner many years ago, when I didn't even have a smartphone (and neither did most other people I knew). Nowadays I don't use it often anymore because an app on the phone works well for a single reed and I tune tremolo mostly by ear anyway. The tremolo value given by Dirk's tuner may be very accurate but the deviation in cents does not necessarily mean much for how the note sounds. I find that even on a non-cassotto instrument the values for white and black keys may need to differ because of the sound difference between the reed blocks. With cassotto differences between blocks need to be even larger.
 

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