Please advise-my first acc (Hohner Tango VM)

[Gabonez]

Dear all,

My name is Gabriel, a beginner from Romania, and I kindly ask for your help regarding my first accordion acquisition (an old Hohner Tango VM).
The main question is: I already paid 300$ and I really need to know if this instrument deserve other investments(please note that the seller mentioned it is in a perfect condition).
Unfortunately I observed more problems and I need your feed-back:

1. Some mechanism from bass reeds are missing(photo attached) - Is it possible to be repaired?
2. Only some reeds have T. Most of them have only . or . with one or two T - Are these reeds original from Horner or somebody changed them?

Please help me to understand if I can go forward with this instrument or I have to search for another one.

Thanks a lot!
Gabriel

 

[Soulsaver]

Hi Gabriel

Well the sliders are missing from the bass register mechanism.
You may be able to find them, I think they'd be aluminium from those days.. but you'd have to be pretty lucky to find good straight ones that fit your specific mechanism.

And you & I'd be guessing why they were removed in the first place - so there may be other related problems - stiff registers?
But you can play with 'all reeds' on without a problem - or semi permanently block off the high reed set.. (tape over the holes & put the block back in) which is a bit too high for most peoples liking.

The T reeds are Hohner for sure, and from the right time; may or may not have been original in your box - its 70 + years old so who knows. The "." could also be, but if they work well it's of no matter? "Does it play OK?", is the key question.

If not I'd be returning it for a full refund if described as 'perfect'. If it plays OK, the bass side limitation for a beginner won't be too much of a problem, but if you are unhappy, you could consider asking for a refund.

$300 is an OK price for an OK one of these in the UK.

Welcome & good luck.

 

[debra]

The second photo shows bass reeds where the rightmost one is definitely not the same type as the others.
In such an old instrument you cannot really expect "perfect condition" to imply "with all the original reeds" as some may have needed to be replaced over time.
The valves seem to be in pretty good condition for such an old instrument too.
The only thing that is clearly not in perfect condition is that the bass register sliders are missing. This alone is serious enough to warrant returning the instrument as this is not acceptable. Perfect condition is very clearly and unmistakably a case of false advertising here.

 

[Gabonez]

Thank you for comments!

I found somebody that for $200 will try to fix the mechanism problem and to make the attunement. Now my question is: deserve this uncertain instrument $500? Please note that I am not able to evaluate the quality of reeds sound and for me was important to have the warranty that I am the owner of a Hohner. All internet pictures with Hohner VM show different wood cut at chair no 1 & 3 from mine(please see below):?

Thank you again,
Gabriel

 

[debra]

Thank you for comments!

I found somebody that for $200 will try to fix the mechanism problem and to make the attunement. Now my question is: deserve this uncertain instrument $500? Please note that I am not able to evaluate the quality of reeds sound and for me was important to have the warranty that I am the owner of a Hohner. All internet pictures with Hohner VM show different wood cut at chair no 1 & 3 from mine(please see below):?

Thank you again,
Gabriel
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

You are further answering your own initial question: ...I really need to know if this instrument deserve other investments... because with $200 in additional investment you are going well beyond the true economic value of this type of instrument of its (old) age.
So I would advise to get a refund and look for a better deal elsewhere.

 

[Gabonez]

Thank you!

 

[Morne]

2. Only some reeds have T. Most of them have only . or . with one or two T - Are these reeds original from Horner or somebody changed them?

To answer that specific question, yes, those are Hohner reeds. The reeds with the dots are supposed to be newer than those with the T. You will most likely find the better reeds on the treble side, as in your photos.
Models after that time might have the better dot reeds on the bass and even better reeds in the treble, for example in my 1952 Hohner Morino IV M.

Well the sliders are missing from the bass register mechanism.

The only thing that is clearly not in perfect condition is that the bass register sliders are missing.

Did those have extra long register sliders? Or was there another component involved here? It seems like the longer levers are quite a bit away from the reed blocks.

 

[Gabonez]

Well the sliders are missing from the bass register mechanism.

The only thing that is clearly not in perfect condition is that the bass register sliders are missing.

Did those have extra long register sliders? Or was there another component involved here? It seems like the longer levers are quite a bit away from the reed blocks.

Please find below the difference between mine and a functional one. It looks like somebody cut them.(Why?)

 

[Soulsaver]

Cut? Are they still there but the ends cut off? Or are they removed?

Removed usually because they've stopped working. Why? Usually because someone who didn't know what they were doing bent them trying to remove the blocks... or the block (and/or board) is warped (damp?) and stops the sliders sliding.
Cut? Never come across, but probably the same reasons...

I bought a Verdi V, and one reed block had been split in half length ways by someone not knowing how to get it out. They'd literally nailed it back together and used candle wax in an attempt to seal it. It had been described as in good condition, too. :lol:

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Dear Gabriel,

You may recall that I advised you to visit a reputable dealer, and to be guided by him or her in your choice of instrument.

Had you done so, you would have the protection of consumer rights to fall back on. As it is, you may well need to spend more money to get your Hohner into a reasonable state.

If I were you, I would take this box back to whoever you bought it from and demand your money back. Then I would visit a decent and honest trader and ask what my budget would buy.

It is your money to do with as you see fit, but your inexperience leaves you vulnerable to unscrupulous vendors. It is your choice.

 

[Gabonez]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot for all your comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, the seller confirme the bad advertising by refusing to take back the instrument. For me really maters the principles but at this point I have a difficult personal debate: to ask for law help or to follow my strong desire to open it and try to recondition parts from it offering me a big chance to learn There is a concret risk to make more damages but I allready lost $300 and I do not see many options to recover my money.

Have a good week,
Gabriel

 

[JerryPH]

I can understand your internal debate and I sincerely sympathize, however, to use a very strong American saying, 'you can't polish a turd'. Please do NOT think I am being insulting, what that meaning says in your case is if you start out with a bad and unusable instrument and you already don't have the skills, hardware and knowledge to make it right, it's never going to be what you want and need it to be.

I would contact eBay, lodge a strong complaint, then I would talk go my credit card company, recede the payment. Also contact Paypal about the situation, if you used them.

Don't waste time on an accordion you cannot use, you deserve better!

 

[Soulsaver]

Well you should weigh the cost & hassle of progressing a return to a dishonest seller against how bad the accordion is.

Consider how easy it would be to make the seller refund you;
Did you buy it though eBay from a local (not international) seller and pay by PayPal? If so, then chances are good, but not certain.

If you choose to go legal it may be expensive but whilst I have a pro qualification in commercial law, it doesn't extend to Romania!

But, as I said before, the missing bass sliders doesn't make it unusable, especially for a beginner - so consider that; and fixed these are quite popular cheap box.

 

[hais1273]

Gabriel

A similar thing happened to myself many years ago I bought a small van that turned out to be a pile of crap, the dealer was illusive, full of lies, eventually disappearing before any meaningful repairs could be done. I did what repairs I could, put my hand in my pocket, paid for what repairs the van needed and sold the damn thing, for a loss, as soon as I could. A tough lesson for a 23 year old.

My first accordion teacher here in the UK told me that two of her clients had bought 3 Weltmeister Meteor 34/80 accordions, from Bulgaria, she thought they were in excellent condition and played really well for used instruments. That could be something to consider for the future.

Buying anything on line or over the phone can be a risk, but not all sellers are crooks.

Good Luck

 

[Corsaire]

I would contact eBay, lodge a strong complaint, then I would talk go my credit card company, recede the payment. Also contact Paypal about the situation, if you used them.
Dont waste time on an accordion you cannot use, you deserve better!

Hi Gabriel
This is sensible advice ! And it might be better to start with a smaller instrument and enjoy learning to play. You can take it apart later!!

Sally

 

[Anyanka]

Several posts deleted because they were hostile and/or off-topic.

Try and keep it friendly please!

 

[Gabonez]

Hello to everybody,

Thank you for your support and please forgive the delay in my response. A lot to do in uncertain days but the accordion is becoming more present in my concerns.
I owe you an update: there is no return back possibility for this bad deal and I had to invest another $250 in a good condition 96 Hohner Verdi II N, not so good looking but very clean inside and complete. Paul recommended it in older posts.
This experience helped me to learn a lot and I am very exited now to begin to revive this old Hohner Tango VM with all risks assumed. I spent a lot of time on internet searching and I have an ambitious plan: to make a progressive tuning for this LMMM configuration after a chosen model that I like I have some difficulties in collecting tools because in Bucharest we do not have professional dealers but I can manage.
I will keep you in touch with my work and please be patient with my possible future questions
On the other hand, on next Monday I will start my lessons with a professional teacher

Regards,
Gabriel