Playing Outdoors

[wirralaccordion]

I was recently on holiday in the Lake District ( Keswick ) and happened across a PA busker. The sound was quite loud and I wondered how so without any electrical amplification.
Then I realised it was because the accordionist was playing within a subway ( not the restauarant chain! ) If anyone knows the area if is a subway leading to the boats on Lake Derwentwater and therefore very well used.
I myself use electrical amplification ( Roland Street Cube, as discussed on another thread ) but I wonder what, if any, other surroundings could be taken advantage of to ampify the sound naturally without electrical amplification. I don't have access to any subways in my area.
Also, personally, I always feel that electrical amplification changes the timbre!

 

[Tartan Ghostie]

I was recently on holiday in the Lake District ( Keswick ) and happened across a PA busker. The sound was quite loud and I wondered how so without any electrical amplification.
Then I realised it was because the accordionist was playing within a subway ( not the restauarant chain! ) If anyone knows the area if is a subway leading to the boats on Lake Derwentwater and therefore very well used.
I myself use electrical amplification ( Roland Street Cube, as discussed on another thread ) but I wonder what, if any, other surroundings could be taken advantage of to ampify the sound naturally without electrical amplification. I don't have access to any subways in my area.
Also, personally, I always feel that electrical amplification changes the timbre!

Guitar legend Chet Atkins discovered great acoustics in the boys bathroom at his high school and used a similar environment in a few recordings before he go into electronics. Taking a cue from him, I used to practice my guitar sometimes sitting on the edge of my bath tub. However, there was not much room for an audience.

 

[Shand79MorinoMan]

I was recently on holiday in the Lake District ( Keswick ) and happened across a PA busker. The sound was quite loud and I wondered how so without any electrical amplification.
Then I realised it was because the accordionist was playing within a subway ( not the restauarant chain! ) If anyone knows the area if is a subway leading to the boats on Lake Derwentwater and therefore very well used.
I myself use electrical amplification ( Roland Street Cube, as discussed on another thread ) but I wonder what, if any, other surroundings could be taken advantage of to ampify the sound naturally without electrical amplification. I don't have access to any subways in my area.
Also, personally, I always feel that electrical amplification changes the timbre!

Your post brings back many happy memories. When we had a motorcaravan my wife and I went to Keswick many times.
The tunnel is indeed a favourite place for buskers and people pass through it on their way to and from the lakeside and the motor boats and rowing boats. I do not know if the Allerdale council has regulations re busking in the town as it is some 9 years since we were last there. you should go and try your luck   
A good 5 voice box with strong Scottish tuning is all you need. loud amplification only upsets the locals and shopkeepers who make ask to constabulary to move you on or stop you altogether. Do not stay in one place for too long.

Another great place for busking is the City of York, which, these days you have to apply for a licence before you inflict your version of musical torture on the unsuspecting public. I believe that you will be given a day time and stance from which you may not vary.  This info is not up to date.


I never did take my box away in the van as it is far too valuable to me for sentimental reasons to risk leaving it in an unattended motor vehicle. 
Best regards,
Roy.

 

[Dingo40]

Just going on first principles, any space enclosed or partially enclosed with hard surfaces and not too many people crowding it (eg an arcade or shopping mall) should be excellent

 

[Giovanni]

A friend of mine a very good accordionist used to busk in the subway at st stephens in Norwich UK . A petty thief ran up to him and stole his busking money and ran off ……..from then on he only kept a few coins on display in the collection hat . and made sure he kept his busking money out of sight !!! Sad but a sign of the times !!

 

[JeffJetton]

Just going on first principles, any space enclosed or partially enclosed with hard surfaces and not too many people crowding it (eg an arcade or shopping mall) should be excellent

Yup. Thats why band shells are, well, shells.

 

[jozz]

the shower?

 

[debra]

Just going on first principles, any space enclosed or partially enclosed with hard surfaces and not too many people crowding it (eg an arcade or shopping mall) should be excellent

Yup. Thats why band shells are, well, shells.

And for the best effect the shell should be parabolic with the performer in the focal point. (Obviously with a band not everyone can be in that ideal spot.)

 

[Deleted member 48]

The saxophone inventor Adolphe Sax proposed a parabolic cone for the concert hall in the 19th century. 
I have a picture of his design in a French book about the life and works of Adolphe Sax. 
I'm not sure if Sax took a patent for his parabolic concert hall.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Here ya go:

 

[Deleted member 48]

Found the date, it says in 1866 Adolphe Sax took a patent for an egg shaped concert hall with parabolic elements.

https://asax.fr/adolphe-sax/

I read on the internet the Richard Wagner Bayreuth concert hall plans were inspired by some of A. Saxs ideas about acoustics.


I tried to find an online picture of A. Saxs egg shaped concert hall, but didnt find it immediately.

 

[debra]

The saxophone inventor Adolphe Sax proposed a parabolic cone for the concert hall in the 19th century. 
I have a picture of his design in a French book about the life and works of Adolphe Sax. 
I'm not sure if Sax took a patent for his parabolic concert hall.

It should not be possible to patent this design because it is mathematics and supposedly mathematics cannot be patented.
(But the reality has been different: because mathematic principles cannot be patented the patent offices did not employ mathematicians and as a result the office had nobody who could identify a patent application as being ineligible because it was mathematics.)

 

[Deleted member 48]

The saxophone inventor Adolphe Sax proposed a parabolic cone for the concert hall in the 19th century. 
I have a picture of his design in a French book about the life and works of Adolphe Sax. 
Im not sure if Sax took a patent for his parabolic concert hall.

It should not be possible to patent this design because it is mathematics and supposedly mathematics cannot be patented.
(But the reality has been different: because mathematic principles cannot be patented the patent offices did not employ mathematicians and as a result the office had nobody who could identify a patent application as being ineligible because it was mathematics.)

In a certain way I agree, mathematical laws are universal.
However patent offices do employ mathematicians or scientists with very strong math qualifications.
Albert Einstein started his career at the patent office.

https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi/einstein/einstein-at-the-patent-office.html
Many high ranked patent office employees were mathematicians, because of the technical nature of patents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasquale_Joseph_Federico

19th Century France had a very strong mathematics tradition, chances are they employed mathematicians in the early patent offices.

The first creatures to use an early form of math were the ants, the inventors of the supply chain logistics.
I dont think they took a patent on their logistics chain designs.

Here is the link to the 1866 patent by Adolphe Sax for a [font=roboto_condensed, sans-serif]Nouvelle salle de théâtre et de concert, brevet de 1866[/font]
https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb38714918d


I sympathize with the idea to forbid companies or individuals to monopolize patents, but thats a question of the monopolistic nature of capitalism, the risk of the entrepreneur, etc.

 

[wirralaccordion]

I would love to hear a band play in a "shell" as per Paul deBra's post but without electrical amplification.
After all Jesus preached to multitudes 2,000 years ago with nothing but the natural surroundings and he didn't have any problems in doing so!

 

[JerryPH]

I would love to hear a band play in a "shell" as per Paul deBra's post but without electrical amplification.
After all Jesus preached to multitudes 2,000 years ago with nothing but the natural surroundings and he didn't have any problems in doing so!

Yes, but very few of us are as "talented" as the Son of God, on top of the fact that my feet get wet when I walk on water.  Not that I want to be blasphemous, but I bet you he could play a heck of a good polka on any accordion, had he wanted to... lol

 

[jozz]

Thanks, there are some really funny pictures of Jesus with an accordion on the net.

But seriously, there is no substitute for electric amplification and a decent amount of watts to span a distance. I will be playing two outdoor gigs tomorrow as an acoustic duo and always bring overkill to be comfortable.

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks, there are some really funny pictures of Jesus with an accordion on the net.

But seriously, there is no substitute for electric amplification and a decent amount of watts to span a distance. I will be playing two outdoor gigs tomorrow as an acoustic duo and always bring overkill to be comfortable.

Most definitely.  The same rules apply to all acoustic instruments that are trying to be heard over a larger area.  However, understanding acoustics a little can help the odd busker choose a location that will let them be heard over a larger area by more people.

I basically see it as being the same argument about photographers who insist on using only natural light.  They can accomplish amazing things during the 2 golden hour times of the day, but a photographer that knows how to use portable artificial light can take amazing photos 24 hours a day.  Change photographer[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font] for [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font]musician[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font], [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font]sound[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font] for [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font]light[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font] and [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font]time of day[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font] for [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font]venue size[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif][/font], and it all makes total sense. 

 

[debra]

Here in Eindhoven we have the "Van Doorne Kiosk" which looks quite a bit like the picture posted earlier in this thread. There are regularly concerts by bands without electrical amplification. I once performed there with a band ("harmonieorkest") that used no amplification. But for some singers and for me on the accordion we did use amplification (as the band was so loud we could not be heard otherwise).

 

[jozz]

ok but if one was really outdoors, not in a subway or otherwise under a roof or a band shell

I guess I'd stand in the narrowest street I could find