Playing different accordions

[Dingo40]

I see there’s already a thread on playing different instruments. At first I imagined it was about playing a variety of different accordions, but it was about different types of instruments altogether.
This time I want to address the question of playing different accordions.
I have several piano accordions in different overall dimensions, weight, number of reeds, and keyboard length.
I like to use them all in turn because, I feel I’m trying to learn to play “the” accordion, not “an”, or a “particular” accordion !
My longest keyboard is 19 inches, others 17, 16 3/4, And, the shortest (I bought for my daughter, when she was young) abou 14 inches (a really tight squeeze for me!).
At first I found it difficult to gauge the treble and bass jumps, when moving from one instrument to another, but with time I tend to feel at home a few bars into the tune<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>
All the instruments are 120 bass PAs.
What I find is how light a 17 inch 2 or 3 reed instrument is to “tote” (and how good they sound!) when compared to many of the bigger beasts and how the absence of bass couplers and no more than two treble couplers simplifies matters!
I would, now, suggest that intending learners limit themselves to two or three reeder,, they will suit them for years, and don’t cost a mint!

 

[Dingo40]

Sorry! I seem to have committed the faux pas os submitting a post twice: I blame my inexperience with matters regarding the web: sorry!<EMOJI seq="1f641">?</EMOJI>

 

[debra]

Sorry! I seem to have committed the faux pas os submitting a post twice: I blame my inexperience with matters regarding the web: sorry!<EMOJI seq=1f641>?</EMOJI>

Easily corrected. Thats what we have moderators for.
You should not worry about it, especially as long as people havent started replying to both threads.

 

[debra]

...
I have several piano accordions in different overall dimensions, weight, number of reeds, and keyboard length.
I like to use them all in turn because, I feel I’m trying to learn to play “the” accordion, not “an”, or a “particular” accordion !
My longest keyboard is 19 inches, others 17, 16 3/4, And, the shortest (I bought for my daughter, when she was young) abou 14 inches (a really tight squeeze for me!).
...

The number of basses is not all that important. Its the size of the keys. If they are all 120 bass, do they also all have 41 keys? Then the keys on a 19 inch or 17 inch keyboard are of different width and that can get confusing when switching between the two.
The same happens with button accordions. We (my wife and I) have several button accordions and between them they have 3 different sizes of keys, and this requires adjustment when going from one to the other. Especially as we sometimes switch between an accordion with lots of notes and therefore the smallest buttons to a bass accordion with the largest buttons it is difficult. What is the room occupied by 4 buttons on one is the same as 3 buttons on the other. When playing octaves thats a big difference. No wonder we get it wrong quite often...

 

[Dingo40]

Debra,
Thanks for being understanding about the posts<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>
Regarding the PAs, you’ve put your finger right on it: they’re all 120 bass 41 key PAs.
Obviously the keys all vary in size, particularly in width! For the smallest, the white keys are only about 3/8ths inch wide<EMOJI seq="1f604">?</EMOJI>. On a good day, I can scarcely manipulate them. Of course, it’s really made for a child, but it can be quite amazing to handle such a small, but complete, instrument. It’s made by Crucianelli (probably in the 50s, by the style,) and has very large reeds for its size (especially the low reed). It sounds anything but a toy and I’ve thought would easily hold it’s own in a pub!<EMOJI seq="1f605">?</EMOJI>
Although it takes getting used to switching instruments of differing key widths, I’ve quite grown to like it.
The 16 3/4 And 17 inch keyboard instruments are fun to play, produce great sound and don’t require such a long reach. I’ve often thought they’d be more useful to buskers than an 80 bass 37 key instrumen as they would provide the full keyboard both sides but lighter and more compact: just a thought<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>

 

[JerryPH]

Multiple accordions will have different reasons for being in people's collections.

I have my Hohner Morino VI N because I used to be very heavy in to the conservatory thing with classical music and I still fiddle around with it today. I have the Elkavox because at the time when I bought it, it was the best available gigging instrument on the market (although I did gig with the big Hohner, if you can believe that... lol). Though the Elka is now pretty much relegated to the shelf, I did recently pick up a small Hohner FB 36 that is strictly a free bass instrument just to have fun. It's super light and the left hand has 3 rows of 36 free bass notes.

I honestly think that the best gigging instrument anywhere today has to be the V-accordions simply because they have such a variety of sounds and when set up properly, are a dream to use in a gigging environment. That makes gigging with them such a treat. No two songs ever sound alike and we can truly simulate a one man band with ease. I managed to pick one a near new one (only a few hours of use) for a very reasonable price, and can now appreciate it's lovely advantages and disadvantages.

So for me, whatever accordion I pick up, I tend to play completely different styles of music on and that is why I have different accordions.

 

[jozz]

I have several piano accordions in different overall dimensions, weight, number of reeds, and keyboard length.
I like to use them all in turn because, I feel I’m trying to learn to play “the” accordion, not “an”, or a “particular” accordion !

Well I guess its fun to own and play many accordions, however from a learning method point of view I would say that could be counter productive. Distracts your muscle memory a bit.

When I was taught at music school as a child, my instructor advised dimensions to be just a bit bigger than comfortable (to grow into), ended up with 80 bass Parrot and he used a beat up Hohner Student 32 himself.

Only when the time came to move into an orchestra, it became custom to use full grown 120 bass instruments.

Right now, if I have to focus on a piece I will train it on the instrument I will be using to perform it on. But I have only one PA, so that doesnt count but otherwise you might make tiny mistakes that break down your confidence.

Also, from a sentimental point of view, I like to have only one main instrument, where you are really at home, so that it becomes part of you.

 

[JerryPH]

Well I guess its fun to own and play many accordions, however from a learning method point of view I would say that could be counter productive. Distracts your muscle memory a bit.

That is true, but only for a very short time. Even someone in their late 50s like me can easily learn to move back and forth amongst several instruments and the brain has more than enough capacity to remember and near instantly feel comfortable with more than one instrument when switching.

Like with one instrument, using them all on a regular basis is the key for staying comfortable with all your instruments. An accordion is an accordion, so the basics stay there, the feel adjusts to what you are playing. My fingers hit all the right registers and all the right notes even when switching to another box and it starts to feel like home in as little as 2-3 minutes of playing after not picking up that accordion for about a week.

Now, of course different people will react differently, I can only speak from personal experience.

 

[Geronimo]

Also, from a sentimental point of view, I like to have only one main instrument, where you are really at home, so that it becomes part of you.

Sure, it should have a 3-reed tremolo since thats the best blend, low and high reeds to be useful in an accordion orchestra, cassotto because of its sound quality, full range keyboard in order to play in an accordion orchestra, converter/free bass because that allows to play keyboard and/or organ music, and be compact and light so that you can play it while standing up. And for best expressivity, it better be an acoustic instrument, and to keep feedback in check an electronic one.

I think Ill eventually manage to get down to about 4 instruments. The problem is that on your path to finding those 4 instruments, others tend to accumulate.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I see there’s already a thread on playing different instruments. At first I imagined it was about playing a variety of different accordions, but it was about different types of instruments altogether.
This time I want to address the question of playing different accordions.
I have several piano accordions in different overall dimensions, weight, number of reeds, and keyboard length.
I like to use them all in turn because, I feel I’m trying to learn to play “the” accordion, not “an”, or a “particular” accordion !
My longest keyboard is 19 inches, others 17, 16 3/4, And, the shortest (I bought for my daughter, when she was young) abou 14 inches (a really tight squeeze for me!).
At first I found it difficult to gauge the treble and bass jumps, when moving from one instrument to another, but with time I tend to feel at home a few bars into the tune<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI>
All the instruments are 120 bass PAs.
What I find is how light a 17 inch 2 or 3 reed instrument is to “tote” (and how good they sound!) when compared to many of the bigger beasts and how the absence of bass couplers and no more than two treble couplers simplifies matters!
I would, now, suggest that intending learners limit themselves to two or three reeder,, they will suit them for years, and don’t cost a mint!

Ive been told that the most important factor in determining the weight of an accordion is its shell. So, all other things being equal, a smaller instrument will weigh less than a larger one. A reed block will usually weigh less than a pound, so adding two or three of them wont make a tremendous difference. Converter basses will add weight, because of the converter mechanism, the additional reeds, but mostly the larger shell to accommodate them. Using soft woods for the shell as opposed to hard woods ( a common practice in non-Roland reedless instruments) will decrease the weight. Some manufacturers look for woods that are less dense but still stable to help produce a lighter instrument. Beltuna, and perhaps others, are experimenting with carbon fiber in places that are ordinarily made of wood.

If an accordions straps are adjusted properly, and the player is seated, the weight of the instrument is not a factor. But when transporting the instrument, the weight of the case its in is definitely a factor.

Im keenly aware of weight at this point. I had cataract surgery two weeks ago. and Im prohibited from lifting my accordion from that time on to another two weeks fro now. I can only play if someone carries it for me, takes it out of its case and puts it on my lap, and reverses the process when Im finished playing. I have to tell you, Im having withdrawal symptoms !

 

[jozz]

Yeah well I said one MAIN instrument not 'one' instrument It's clear that different types serve different functions.

Dingo is talking about multiple accordions taking turns to be played while at the same time learning to play, with dimensions being the biggest difference. I get that but in that respect I'd say, if the instrument are more or less the same, stick to one main instrument.

 

[jozz]

I can only play if someone carries it for me, takes it out of its case and puts it on my lap, and reverses the process when Im finished playing. I have to tell you, Im having withdrawal symptoms !

I guess the recovery time will turn out surprisingly long for you...

 

[Dingo40]

Alan,
Sorry to hear of your optical issues.<EMOJI seq="1f610">?</EMOJI>
If it’s any consolation, judging by my mother-in law’s experience (both eyes), you should be back in business in a few weeks, good as new!<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d">?</EMOJI>

 

[Waldo]

Post by JerryPH » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:21 am

Multiple accordions will have different reasons for being in people's collections.

Indeed! My first box was a Paolo Soprano CBA that weighed 23#. Too much. Sold it and bought a new Beltuna Studio II CBA at 13# [62/38 x 60, 2/4 mm, 2/0, F#-G]. The weight factor was an acceptable trade off for the lack of choices [voices]. I may feel differently once I gain some proficiency. I travel a lot to Mexico, and didn't want to risk my $4000 'Tuna, so I've been looking for a travel box. My search turned up an Artista "brand" CBA advertised to have hand made reeds [details in another post]. I made a $750 offer and it was accepted. This box has turned out to be a custom made Pigini "stencil" made for an American Accordion dealer in the late 70's. It also weighs 25#! So, I'm back to square one almost by default.
I still needed a small road box, and recently scored another Paolo Soprani about the size and spec as the Beltuna, except it weighs 17#. Now, this wasn't my first choice because the keyboard is distinctly different than my 'Tuna and Artista. The aforementioned have buttons that resemble a mushroom, have a felt bumper on the underside of the button and bottom out against a stepped keyboard. The Soprani, on the other hand, has buttons that are smaller in diameter and resemble bass pistons. They are cylindrical instead of mushroom shape and pass thru a hole larger than the button. I refer to this as "French" style. These two styles feel very different to me, initally. The Soprani also lacks black buttons, white only [now, this shouldn't matter, as you shouldn't look down there, anyway].
Having put in 6 mos. on the first Soprano, I found the switch to be only slightly problematic. I find the lack of cross-hatched "C" buttons on the treble side more of a challenge. I also miss the stepped keyboard when using the thumb on the inner rows.
I prefer my Beltuna for the convenience/ease of use. Sounds great with big noise. I play it the most.
Second is the Artista, which also sounds great and offers 7/3 voices with an ease of playing. It's fine sitting down and I can always use the 'Tuna when I only have a little time to mess about.
The Soprano will fill the bill for travel, but I'll continue to hunt for another diminutive CBA that better matches my other boxes. When found, I'll be done.

Conclusion; the closer to matching, with respect to button style and button centerlines, the better. Moving from one to another doesn't seem to be all that bad [bass accordions excepted].

Press on....
Waldo

 

[Dingo40]

WaldoW,
Thanks for an entertaining post!<EMOJI seq="1f44d">?</EMOJI>
You can relatively easily have your “C” buttons marked for you by a technician or (if reckless enough) do it yourself<EMOJI seq="1f604">?</EMOJI>
I myself have marked several “E” and “Ab” bass buttons on various accordions using a very sharp 3/8ths inch drill bit in a manually operated hand drill. This requires an assistant to hold the button (piston) in place using a pair of suitable pliers, the jaws of which are bound with soft cloth, while the operator plies the drill(very gently) having first marked the proper spot with a sharp object (such as the point of a short sharp knife).<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>
Do not do this without making doubly sure what needs to be marked, or if you doubt your skills!<EMOJI seq="1f610">?</EMOJI>
I have found the resulting dimples to be often superior in effectiveness to the factory provision<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>.
I find the dimple easier to execute neatly than a cross- hatch.

 

[debra]

...
The Soprani, on the other hand, has buttons that are smaller in diameter and resemble bass pistons. They are cylindrical instead of mushroom shape and pass thru a hole larger than the button. I refer to this as French style. These two styles feel very different to me, initally. The Soprani also lacks black buttons, white only [now, this shouldnt matter, as you shouldnt look down there, anyway].
...

From your description this sounds like it is a Swiss style flat C-system accordion. My Morino Artiste XS is like that. Takes just a little bit of getting used to but it is just C-system, so why not. But... I heavily rely on the markings to find my way just like you. The hint of creating dimples with a drill bit should work. I have seen it done (but have not done it myself). Buttons that are already marked can of course be bought separately, but I have not seen them for a flat C-system. (My Morino has marked buttons but they are not C and F. Hohner for some strange reason decided that the keyboards should have A, C# and G# marked, while at the same time marking C and F on the MIII melody bass side. Go figure!)

 

[Geronimo]

The aforementioned have buttons that resemble a mushroom, have a felt bumper on the underside of the button and bottom out against a stepped keyboard. The Soprani, on the other hand, has buttons that are smaller in diameter and resemble bass pistons. They are cylindrical instead of mushroom shape and pass thru a hole larger than the button. I refer to this as French style.

Flachgriff is not typical for French instruments in my experience: they rather tend to have mushrooms everywhere including the bass side. It is, however, standard in Switzerland (including the French-speaking regions), using C system. The Swiss seem to basically insist on it: manufacturers exporting to Switzerland tend to adapt. I have an Excelsior (equipped with a Swiss Midi system) in Flachgriff, and I have also seen Morino Artistes like that. Its not standard for either. The Artiste I have seen has had a rather similar play feel to my own (staircased with mushroom buttons) instrument while the Excelsior feels quite differently.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was assuming it was French.
Waldo