New ZeroSette 120 C-griff user

[polvader]

Hello I am the happy owner of a ZeroSette button accordion in the "C" system. I am 44 years old and I have been playing the keyboard accordion since I was a child - I found out that it would be easier for me to learn the accordion in the "C" system. Unfortunately, in Poland there are no books for such an accordion - here they only play on "B" Could anyone recommend me some materials - books for learning fingerings on such an accordion?

 

[Ffingers]

Hello I am the happy owner of a ZeroSette button accordion in the "C" system. I am 44 years old and I have been playing the keyboard accordion since I was a child - I found out that it would be easier for me to learn the accordion in the "C" system. Unfortunately, in Poland there are no books for such an accordion - here they only play on "B" Could anyone recommend me some materials - books for learning fingerings on such an accordion?

"Complete Accordion Method" by Lucien & Richard Galliano - yes, that RIchard Galliano.

Father, Lucien, plays PA and son, Richard C griff CBA, and they provide fingering suggestions for both.

I am in the opposite position, a lack of tutorial material for B griff in English.

 

[Siegmund]

I like the Luigi Anzaghi book best, myself, but many people do like the Galliano too. (Both books are available in several languages - but do not know if any is in Polish.,)

 

[saundersbp]

I like the Luigi Anzaghi book best

I've never seen a copy of this but googling it says it's £50 which is pretty wild! Is it available as a pdf do you know?

I used Lars Hill and also recently come across Anders Grøthe. The former is excellent for a total beginner, the later more comprehensive in 3 volumes but messy in the page as it tries to cover B, C and piano accordion fingering all at the same time!

 

[OuijaBoard]

OMG, here are both LG on PA and RG on CBA!

 

[polvader]

"Complete Accordion Method" by Lucien & Richard Galliano - yes, that RIchard Galliano.

Father, Lucien, plays PA and son, Richard C griff CBA, and they provide fingering suggestions for both.

I am in the opposite position, a lack of tutorial material for B griff in English.

Apparently a very good book in the "B" system (3 parts) - but unfortunately in Polish...
"https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=Szkoła+na+akordeon+guzikowy+-+autor+Arkadiusz+Gembara&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8"
Thank you very much for the suggestion of the book on "c" griff.

 

[RowanSumner]

I've never seen a copy of this but googling it says it's £50 which is pretty wild! Is it available as a pdf do you know?

I used Lars Hill and also recently come across Anders Grøthe. The former is excellent for a total beginner, the later more comprehensive in 3 volumes but messy in the page as it tries to cover B, C and piano accordion fingering all at the same time!

I've found the Anzaghi complete method book on a site called Z library. I am looking for the other books he's written in English, if anyone can find these I would be really grateful. (50 pounds for a badly translated book from the 40's is mental)

 

[cestjeffici]

There is a english edition on Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Accordion-English-Composer-Anzaghi/dp/B003AH0TXI/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3BKFWQ46SMBJ3&keywords=Anzaghi&qid=1705949053&sprefix=anzaghi+%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-6&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Do any of the method books discussed here for CBA C-Griff also include C-system free bass? At this time I'm only curious, but I just might get a small CBA C-Griff converter or a Roland FR-1xb or 4xb in the near future.

 

[saundersbp]

Do any of the method books discussed here for CBA C-Griff also include C-system free bass? At this time I'm only curious, but I just might get a small CBA C-Griff converter or a Roland FR-1xb or 4xb in the near future.

Lars Holm and Anders Grøthe are for C system freebass.

 

[micahcowan]

Do any of the method books discussed here for CBA C-Griff also include C-system free bass? At this time I'm only curious, but I just might get a small CBA C-Griff converter or a Roland FR-1xb or 4xb in the near future.

Since, unlike with a piano, or a B-system accordion, the C-system chromatic free bass is a mirror of the RH-side, the LH fingering is the same as for RH. Going up or down a scale in the LH will be the same fingers as going up or down a scale in the RH (unless you use more than 4 rows when you do the RH scale...)

 

[dak]

Since, unlike with a piano, or a B-system accordion, the C-system chromatic free bass is a mirror of the RH-side, the LH fingering is the same as for RH. Going up or down a scale in the LH will be the same fingers as going up or down a scale in the RH (unless you use more than 4 rows when you do the RH scale...)

Not really for fingering schemes including the thumb. Distances and angles for the left hand are different than for the right hand. The shapes are similar, but the manner in which you best cover them with your fingers may well differ.

 

[micahcowan]

Not really for fingering schemes including the thumb. Distances and angles for the left hand are different than for the right hand. The shapes are similar, but the manner in which you best cover them with your fingers may well differ.

Hm, I'm not finding it difficult to play on the first row or two on the LH with my thumb, personally. At least in anything I've tried to play so far (admittedly, only like 2-3 pieces), and in scale work or exercises.

But I still agree that the differences in hand angles (particularly) have a big impact on how the LH is played, even if it doesn't affect my fingering much. When I entered the world of (free bass) accordions, I think I was hoping for/expecting a roughly equivalent level of versatility on free bass, as on a piano/organ, or my RH on the treble side. But clearly this is impossible - your right hand isn't literally strapped to the instrument, and doesn't have to curl over several inches of blank space to reach the notes as the LH does. Your LH can't "cup" the positions as it can on a piano, providing that more direct control from the knuckle joints, whereas the LH of an accordion must primarily operate buttons from closer to the fingertips, from an awkward "curled" position. Playing with your thumb on the 3rd row may be slightly less convenient than the 1st or 2nd, on the RH, but it's impossible on the left (but I wouldn't want to anyway given that chromatic free bass converters tend to only convert the outer 4 rows), You can't "roll your wrist" to briskly and gracefully play a figure as you might in the RH. It has every note (possibly more) that the RH has, but the difference in versatility is large.

And of course, the buttons themselves tend to be a tad more awkward, being taller and having less pad to them. I wonder if this is less true of some non-converter (dedicated) free bass instruments somewhere?

 

[dak]

Hm, I'm not finding it difficult to play on the first row or two on the LH with my thumb, personally. At least in anything I've tried to play so far (admittedly, only like 2-3 pieces), and in scale work or exercises.

[...]

And of course, the buttons themselves tend to be a tad more awkward, being taller and having less pad to them. I wonder if this is less true of some non-converter (dedicated) free bass instruments somewhere?

Well, I have just half-answers: the only converter I have is a Roland FR-1 (which is kind of a toy), and the free bass I have has the free bass on top of a Stradella bass. For that particular Morino, the button tops are rounded and quite less sticking out than the Stradella buttons and have quite responsive shallow action (it is readily apparent that there is less intermediate mechanics involved than with the Stradella). Given the position of the 3-row free bass section, the thumb is a non-starter.
I guess that this somewhat awkward and long-winded "educational" clip of mine gives a reasonably close view of the respective actions:


Here it is in actual use, and one can see that the kind of reach you need to employ does not really make the thumb an option:


I think I have seen some historical free bass only instrument which used the same buttons on the left hand as on the right hand. Interesting. I think I even remember a piano accordion with a left-hand piano keyboard as well.

But neither appears to have evoked enough demand to stay in production.

 

[micahcowan]

Well, I have just half-answers: the only converter I have is a Roland FR-1 (which is kind of a toy), and the free bass I have has the free bass on top of a Stradella bass.

Ah! Yes, clearly the free-bass-on-top model is not going to support the thumb, and you definitely won't be able to use the same fingerings.

I have a Roland FR-1xb and an Americana Nemo II C, and previously had a Pigini Studio B2 in C griff. All of those are converters, and the bottom 4 rows in each case become free bass.

 

[losthobos]

The historical free bass only instruments with same buttons both sides were called Harmoniums...
I'd love one....mirrored C Griff please

 

[dak]

The historical free bass only instruments with same buttons both sides were called Harmoniums...
I'd love one....mirrored C Griff please

Well, a Harmonium is really inconvenient for changing bellows direction: you need to switch instruments for that, making bellow shakes really strenuous. The instruments you use for push are called "Druckwindharmonium" in German and "harmonium" in English, the ones you use on the draw are "Saugwindharmonium" in German and "reed organ" in English (never mind that an actual "organ" uses push wind). The good news is that you need no reed valves.

 

[petch]

Well, a Harmonium is really inconvenient for changing bellows direction: you need to switch instruments for that, making bellow shakes really strenuous. The instruments you use for push are called "Druckwindharmonium" in German and "harmonium" in English, the ones you use on the draw are "Saugwindharmonium" in German and "reed organ" in English (never mind that an actual "organ" uses push wind). The good news is that you need no reed valves.

I think there's some confusion here, I believe losthobos meant to say Harmoneon

Harmoneon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dak]

I think there's some confusion here, I believe losthobos meant to say Harmoneon

Harmoneon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh. That looks actually serious. Unless it is one of those "and if you don't believe me, look it up on Wikipedia in two hours" cases… But it looks too good to be untrue.

 

[losthobos]

Thanks @petch
That's the kiddie