My Crucianelli

[Paul vdV]

So this last week this Crucianelli came to my house. I bought this privately.

It has 4 reed blocks, two (one L, one M dry tuned in cassotto. The other MM are wet tuned:

One is called viola and is below A 440: on the lowest notes it is around -22 cents, on the highest notes it is around 9 cents.
The other is called flute and is voiced higher: o[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]n the lowest notes it is around +25 cents, on the highest[/font] [font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]notes it is around 8 cents.)
The tuning is not perfectly consitent across the range of the keyboard.[/font]

Furthermore, there is one register that pairs the two wet tuned reed blocks. A horrible sound, which is called polka. Very out of tune, to my ears.[/font]

I feel that the registers flute, viola and polka are unusable. I think there is a significant tuning job neccesary

I like a musette sound that is very modest, so I am thinking to have the two wet tuned reed block tuned to a smaller interval.

I realise that this would alter all the registers that use an wet tuned reed block.
So, there are a couple of questions that I would appriciate to have some thoughs or advise on:[/font]

- Is a register that uses only the two wet tuned reed blocks common? What is the use? Or is the tuning on this accordeon wrong?
- What is the opinion on investing in a less wider wet tuned reed blocks?
- Would it be better to sell it?

I generally like the dry tuned blocks and the sound and playability of the instrument itself …

It looks like this:

 

[debra]

Looks like a nice accordion. Does not look like any Crucianelli I have seen from the period when Crucianelli made accordions. So this must be a newer instrument made (under license) by someone else.
Many accordions with an M-, M, M+ tuning do not have an option to select M- with M as well as M with M+ and also not M- with M+. More typically you get M, then M with M+, then M-, M, M+ together. But there are exceptions. I did see an Excelsior with an M- with M+ register called "musette vivace" (not sure whether the vivace refers to the very fast tremolo you hear or whether it means it should be played very fast or otherwise sound horribly bad, but probably the former).
The tuning of the accordion (while it may not be perfect any more) is not "wrong". A lot of tremolo was quite common longer ago. In the orchestra I started playing as a youngster there were a lot of Crucianelli accordions, all with a lot of tremolo. I have a Crucianelli Super Video (LMMM) from the seventies and it came with similar tuning, but without cassotto and without M- with M+ register, only M (oboe), MM (celeste) and MMM (musette) as options without L. I changed the tuning, reducing the amount of tremolo, more in line of what people expect in accordions today (unless you specifically want something like "Amsterdam tuning" on Accordiola accordions).

 

[Eddy Yates]

Can you post a little recording of the voices in question?

 

[Paul vdV]

Looks like a nice accordion. Does not look like any Crucianelli I have seen from the period when Crucianelli made accordions. So this must be a newer instrument made (under license) by someone else.
Many accordions with an M-, M, M+ tuning do not have an option to select M- with M as well as M with M+ and also not M- with M+. More typically you get M, then M with M+, then M-, M, M+ together. But there are exceptions. I did see an Excelsior with an M- with M+ register called musette vivace (not sure whether the vivace refers to the very fast tremolo you hear or whether it means it should be played very fast or otherwise sound horribly bad, but probably the former).
The tuning of the accordion (while it may not be perfect any more) is not wrong. A lot of tremolo was quite common longer ago. In the orchestra I started playing as a youngster there were a lot of Crucianelli accordions, all with a lot of tremolo. I have a Crucianelli Super Video (LMMM) from the seventies and it came with similar tuning, but without cassotto and without M- with M+ register, only M (oboe), MM (celeste) and MMM (musette) as options without L. I changed the tuning, reducing the amount of tremolo, more in line of what people expect in accordions today (unless you specifically want something like Amsterdam tuning on Accordiola accordions).

Thanks, Paul. I has two badges that state Made in Italy, the one on the back also carries a serial number: 334. On closer inspection it can be seen that it has had some use. I think I am going to have the tuning modernised, if that is a correct term. Less tremolo. 

Still seems a kind of special, this tuning. Maybe it was done post production ...

It is a bit like this:[video=youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z4mpQ13XgQhttp://[/video]

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Can you post a little recording of the voices in question?

sure!



Really interested what you think about this ... Only A is sounded in two octaves ...

 

[Dingo40]

Paul, in view of the old assumption that an accordion sounds different to a listener than it does to the player, it may be wise to have your friendly repairman play it for you in all registers, before you do anything: you may actually like it as is ( any necessary tuning aside).
Radical retuning could be more costly in time and trouble (not to mention expense if you eventually need professional help to pull the chestnuts out of the fire) than would switching over to another instrument more to your liking! 

 

[Paul vdV]

Thanks, Dingo40,

Good advice, I will be visiting my repairman today.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks, Dingo40,

Good advice, I will be visiting my repairman today.

Paul, 

I would second that. It sounds as though an LMMM may not be the best choice for you. Ask the tuner to let you hear an LMMH if he has one. 

Bear in mind that no two accordions, especially those with musette tuning, will sound exactly alike. There are so many "off-tuned" reeds that each accordion is unique. You could say that each has its own "fingerprint", and the results of a retune may not be to your liking either.

 

[debra]

Can you post a little recording of the voices in question?

sure!



Really interested what you think about this ... Only A is sounded in two octaves ...

Something is seriously afoot with this. When I play this and hold my tuner to it the deviations are much larger than what you stated earlier, more like plus and minus 35 cents or so. That is way too much by anyones standard.
Also, it sounds extremely high for an A: my tuner first of all says it is A# and the highest reed at some point is so high it gets mistaken for a B even.
I would not be surprised if even the Scottish would say this is too much tremolo.

Before you take the instrument to a tuner you should first figure out for yourself how much tremolo you would like on each of the combinations of registers. You want the accordion tuned to your liking, not to the tuners liking.

The way Crucianelli is written (large caps) on the accordion is how it was done on the old real Crucianellis. The newer ones often have the ugly single-letter stickers shown in that video. However, the grille does not look like an old Crucianelli grille. It may be of a later series than the ones I am familiar with.

 

[Paul vdV]

Can you post a little recording of the voices in question?

sure!



Really interested what you think about this ... Only A is sounded in two octaves ...

Something is seriously afoot with this. When I play this and hold my tuner to it the deviations are much larger than what you stated earlier, more like plus and minus 35 cents or so. That is way too much by anyones standard.
Also, it sounds extremely high for an A: my tuner first of all says it is A# and the highest reed at some point is so high it gets mistaken for a B even.
I would not be surprised if even the Scottish would say this is too much tremolo.

Before you take the instrument to a tuner you should first figure out for yourself how much tremolo you would like on each of the combinations of registers. You want the accordion tuned to your liking, not to the tuners liking.

The way Crucianelli is written (large caps) on the accordion is how it was done on the old real Crucianellis. The newer ones often have the ugly single-letter stickers shown in that video. However, the grille does not look like an old Crucianelli grille. It may be of a later series than the ones I am familiar with.

Thanks, Paul.

I think I know what I like … a more mellow accordion sound...

Just returned from my repairman. I let him comment on the instrument before telling anything about it or my feelings to it.
He said that he thought it was a good looking accordion and that the brand had a good reputation. He proceeded to show me an older accordeon of the same brand.
While playing he said that it had a great sound. Until he reached the wet tuned registers, that is. Very much Paul de Bras conclusions as stated above. And these are coherent with the reason I started this thread. 

After evaluation I asked him to tune the non cassotto blocks to a milder tremelo. He had a very nice Scandalli, which he had tuned in a similar way, so we know what we agreed on.

When I purchased the instrument I had noticed that there were two non-functioning bass register buttons. After opening up he told me that the way this accordion is constructed I have the option to have two (other than already on the accordion) bass registers installed just by bending the right parts of the sliders. Its all there, but never made use of … So after discussion I have made a choice there, too. Strange but welcome find …

I forgot to take pictures from the inside, but repairman said it looked like a hand build instrument: all wood parts lackered, polished metal parts,  all very neat and tidy. 

It will take a couple of weeks, cant wait!

 

[debra]

Best of luck with the more mellow tuning job. I'm sure you will like the accordion much more when your repairman is done!

 

[Dingo40]

All good!

 

[Paul vdV]

All good!

I'll report back, when the accordeon has returned home ...

 

[Paul vdV]

As promised here is an update on my Crucianelli. As stated above I was rather unhappy with how the accordion was tuned. Meanwhile I found a video on line with an accordion that is tuned about the same as mine was. It is here: 



I also found some information in this forum about the history of the Crucianelli name. The Crucianelli factory closed in in 1971. I contacted Clinkscale music in Scotland and recieved some very friendly emails from the current owner, Steve. He told me that his father secured the rights to the Crucianelli name for the UK. The accordions were made in several factories from the seventies onward. He told me my accordion looked a lot like his fathers accordion. He estimated the production date to be somewhere in the late seventies to the early eighties. These accordions were handmade in the original Guerrini factory, which has also closed. Mine has a serial number, but no ledgers or administration have survived as the company Clinkscale Radio & Musical (which ordered these accordions in those years) closed its doors many many years ago.

I picked my accordion up from the tuner last week. He has tuned it almost dry: L and M in cassotto are 440, one reed block out of cassotto is also 440, the other out of cassotto is tuned 4 cents higher. This is now a jazz or balkan tuned accordion. The differences between the registers are there, but in some cases rather subtle. The closest sounding accordion I could find is here. Mine is 40 years older, but still somewhat like this: 



More expensive accordion, (Note: this is a LMLM accordion) and a great player.

I still tamed the melody side a bit with a makeshift sordino. ( I used felt and thick paper. The paper had the most effect.)

At this moment I am very happy with the improvement in sound. It is a complete different accordion and I like it.

I have another question, which Ill post in a new thread.