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Mic question. ?

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Tom

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Please excuse me and refer me to the answer if this has been asked before!

How do you mic your vocals and accordion so that only the vocals are in one mic and only the accordion is in another?  

I don't really know about mics but I have a USB Samson go mic and a Shure PG57.  I do not have an internal or external mic on the accordion.  When I sing and play (standing or sitting) I would like to separate the vocal from the accordion in the mixer.  

When I play, both mics pick up both the accordion and singing.  Do I need a special type of mic or mic placement?

Thanks for your advice.
 

Frank Fusari

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Hey Tom,

If you put one mic near your mouth, and one mic near the accordion, sort of in front of it, and play and sing at the same time, you may get a good balance, but the sounds will not be 'separate', because some of the sound of the accordion will go into the vocal mic too, and vice versa.

There is only one way to separate the sounds completely, and that would be to record them as tracks. So you would record the accordion first, and then listen to it with headphones while you record the vocals.

What are you using to make the recording? If a computer and music editing software (like Audacity for example) are involved, then it is easy to do this.


Frank
 

Eddy Yates

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Do you mean for a recording? Sounds like you really want to record both singing and playing live. You can get more separation by getting some very directional mics, unfortunately not the ones you have. Frank's right, if you're looking for complete separation, you have to record voice and instrument separately. You can get close (if you're recording) by getting a sound baffle that you can mount on your mic stand. These remedies will cost you, though. Let us know why you want the sounds separate and maybe we can give more info.
WHY is always a good question to ask.
All the best.
 

Frank Fusari

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oh yeah, I guess I just assumed you meant for a recording...

if you are talking about performing with mics and a sound system, then I guess just make sure the mics are very close to their sources, which would the normal thing to do anyway. Maybe pan one mic a little left and one mic a little right...
 

Tom

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Thanks Eddy and Frank!

It's for both recording and performing. In both situations the accordion overpowers the vocals and I want to be able to balance them. But maybe I don't need to worry so much about separating them totally? More experimentation is necessary. Yes, I am using audacity for the recording.

What is a decent directional mic? Would you recommend using two of them?

Thanks!
 

jozz

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before you go out and buy other stuff, make sure you have setup these mic's correctly

that Samson seems to have multi-directional mode so make sure it is not set to omni, because then you will pickup everything around it front and back (you can use omni to pickup your whole accordion with 1 mic, but not while singing into the same direction)

the Shure should be your vocal mic, (almost) touching your lips, that's what it's designed for

placement: both mic channels should not be run more "hot"/gained than necessary before their mic's placement is correctly set first
gain: especially important for the Samson as it is a condenser, this one should have lowest gain; Shure should have higher gain, if they are set the same, chances are Samson is being run way too hot
level: start with the Shure and bring in the Samson to balance
 

Tom

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Thanks for the advice, Jozz, I'll check that out.
 

JerryPH

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Sorry that I missed this thread. :)

Best results are going to happen when you get things close... one mic that is 1-2 inches from the mouth and the other on the accordion likely centered slightly left or right of the center of the bellows about 6 inches in front of the accordion based on the sound that you like best. Both mics used in a very directional mode (Cardioid), should bring best results.

When recording, make sure that neither mic records any higher than -12db on the mixer.

Now, there is no way to make them record 100% one side without recording some from the other, but in this manner, you should have a good amount of separation.

Recording at low levels (not to worry, you bring them right up in the post processing stage), and getting the mics close to the source are the secrets. :)
 

Tom

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Thanks Jerry, you're the best!
 

Tom

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Thanks Eddy!
 

Eddy Yates

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JerryPH pid=65703 dateline=1560886931 said:
Uhhmm, sorry Eddy...
This:

(haha... light humor, but good info)
Authoritative bearded guy, good attitude, partly right, but made so by placing the mic in the worst place in the room.  Did you read the comments by people who used one? I narrated 45 episodes of my radio show using one. I’ve also recorded singers and trumpet with it. They work, but he’s right about the necessity of treating the rest of the space. If he had backed up to his open closet full of clothes, he would have had good absorption for the room reflections. Actually, if he’d backed all the way in so the clothes were in front of him.....

You dont have to add a bunch of 4 rigid fiberglass or an expensive diffuser to your recording space, although thatll work, and every guy selling something like that will tell you thats the ONLY way. For example, if you have bookcases, just randomly adjust the spines of the books so they look like the Himalayas, randomly push them back towards the rear at different measurements,  and leave some space behind them in the shelves. Then, experiment with sitting at different distances with your back to the shelves, the mic pointed that direction. I didnt get this from YouTube, I built and owned a studio for 16 years. And yeah, you can probably find a YouTube guy who says it doesnt work. Ill trust experience over an incomplete video any day. IMnsHO
 

JerryPH

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I wasn't trying to be all serious, but I did agree have to with his results as he presented them.  As he used it, that screen wasn't blocking anything.  My take is if the rest of the room was treated as you say, even lightly, you will get better results with that over using this tool in a live room.  Also, using your scenario, had he not backed in to his closet, but faced in to it with his clothes area parted and him standing a couple inches inside, that would have given him even better results, again, without needing this tool.


The maker of this video does just happen to have a treated closet studio, where he usually does his other videos like voiceovers and mic comparisons.

Now, I hope you don't think I am arguing, just a an exchange of opinions, I really was posting it as light-heartedly as I could.  :)

I've also built a good 5-6 studios with friends and had home studios of my own in one form or another since the late 70's (including the audio/video studio that is now taking up 50% of my basement... lol), so I am not totally ignorant of all the rules.  

I will say one thing... I agree with you completely in that a tool improperly used is not going to give you the results "as advertised".  Using it in the manner he showed, was definitely not the best way, but I bet you that more people use this improperly than properly, expecting this shield to do the work of an entire studio, simply because sadly that is how it is marketed.
 
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