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LMQ-tuned (Low, Mid, Fifth)

Morne

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I came across some videos of these accordions from around the 1960s. The treble side is tuned low, middle and fifth (above middle, below high). These are Titano Combo Cordion and Pancordion Tiger.


Most of the videos are by Liberty Bellows the shop, so I was wondering, since they mentioned that these were apparently marketed towards rock groups and so on, does anyone know if there is any music or videos of performances with these accordions or tuning being used in a band context? Or did the idea just never catch on, hence why they only made them for a little while?
 

fjsys

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I dont believe that they were ever used in any rock band from the era.
They were conceived by Faithe Deffner in an attempt to save the dwindling accordion market in the US.
It didnt work.

The best description and history of these that I have seen is in the book:
Squeeze This!: A Cultural History of the Accordion in America

which has a google books preview that worked for me at:
https://books.google.com/books?id=b...AI#v=onepage&q=titano tiger accordion&f=false

Ben
 

Zevy

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<FONT font=Garamond><SIZE size=130>Beltuna made one with this tuning recently.
 

debra

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Fifth was occasionally used on 5-reed instruments that were L-M-M-H-5th. AKKO still makes a Bayan called "fifth" which has this tuning.
 

Morne

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Thanks for that interesting read, Ben. A pity, though. I was trying to imagine it replacing a lead guitar and/or a Hammond organ.

Zevy, do you know which model that is? Are there examples of it being played?
 

Morne

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Paul, do you have any links for that Akko model? I tried searching for it (Akko bayan fifth, Akko bayan quint) in English and translated Russian but I couldn't find anything specific.
 

JIM D.

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The original accordion you speak of here was called a Tiger marketed as a Titano Tiger and came in various colors mainly orange.
Although called a Titano model it was not made by Victoria but Crucianelli (PAN) . The Deffner firm owning both brands figured the Titano name would sell better. The Tiger was a marketing failure and many gathered dust on dealers shelves and finally sold for cost.
Not popular in the day they however are now sought after as collector items.
 

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Heres a post on Reddit about the Tiger that has some more insight into what they were about. An accordion collector showed me one - the idea was to compete with combo organ manafacturers like Vox and Farfisa, the latter based in Osimo, also in the Marche region of central-eastern Italy. The whole concept of having the fifth sound has an antecedent in organ registration, too; the combo organs were emulating the Hammond tonewheel organs, which were a simplified electronic version of pipe organ technology; the whole process can be seen as a reduction/simplification/strive towards greater portability.
 

Morne

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Thanks for the links and more information.

Sorry if this is obvious, but are these fifth-tuned reeds normal piccolo reeds that are tuned differently or are they physically different sized compared to both the M and H reeds?
In other words, suppose you had an LMH accordion, would you be able to re-tune the H reeds to behave like this?
 
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Yea, that's a very good question. Now my guess is that you could. I think that the size = timber or voice. Low being larger reeds voices and so on. I know you don't have to do much to change a reed tuning. But the voice will stay the same octive range. Well just my guess. Let's see what the real masters say. Now I wonder if you could change a roland to do that? Then I could see if its worth doing to one of my dry boxes.
 

JIM D.

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Yes you can do it with some models of "V" accordions.
You can try this for effect - (1) Go to the factory set that has the bandonion set L&M - (2) go to the factory set that has clarinet M and erase the bass reeds. (3) now transpose that M set 8 half steps up (4) now layer that transposed set to the bandonion set and you will now have duplicated the original "TIGER". When you play a C you will get 2 C's an octave apart and a G in the M octave.
 

Morne

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Going off of that I'm going to assume if you were to try this on an acoustic accordion you'd be looking at retuning an LMM and not an LMH. So if the LMM was totally dry you could just rearrange most of the second M reeds?
 

JIM D.

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I you wish to covert a LMM set The L & M dry set can remain but the wet M set will have to replaced with a dry M set. Also you will have to alter the reed block as the size of some the reeds needed will be of a larger size. When you do the installation you will eliminate the first 8 reeds and the last 8 reeds will have to be from a H set. If you try tuning a M set 8 half steps up (or down) you will have to remove metal that will weaken the reed tongues to the point of breaking under normal pressure.
 
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acordiansam

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I thought it was the H reed that was the 5th not the middle?
 

JIM D.

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You can tune a H reed set a 5th apart but since it's an octave higher you will need to tune them 6 half steps down. you must remember that when playing more than one note the highest note has the lead.
 

Zevy

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JIM D. said:
You can tune a H reed set a 5th apart but since its an octave higher you will need to tune them 6 half steps down. you must remember that when playing more than one note the highest note has the lead.
<FONT font=Garamond><SIZE size=130><COLOR color=#0040FF>With all respect Jim, that isnt always true on the accordion. Many times the lower notes rule. Just listen to the last section of Jolly Caballero...
 

debra

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You really cannot change the pitch that much by "retuning". The reeds would be completely ruined. What you need to do is to move the reeds over. It's easiest to start from an LMM accordion because the reeds that are a quint higher are smaller. (If this creates a gap you can fill that with wax.) Trying to start with an LMH accordion means replacing reeds by lower reeds which are larger and they may simply not fit.
When you change an LMM into an LMQ accordion you need to buy new reeds for the highest notes.
 

Zevy

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debra said:
You really cannot change the pitch that much by retuning. The reeds would be completely ruined. What you need to do is to move the reeds over. Its easiest to start from an LMM accordion because the reeds that are a quint higher are smaller. (If this creates a gap you can fill that with wax.) Trying to start with an LMH accordion means replacing reeds by lower reeds which are larger and they may simply not fit.
When you change an LMM into an LMQ accordion you need to buy new reeds for the highest notes.
<FONT font=Garamond><SIZE size=130><COLOR color=#0040FF>Correct. You have to physically move the reeds over.
 

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